We Temporarily Interrupt This Forum

[Calvin45]

If we are talking about harbor freight selling reloading stuff, eeeeek.

You know that reminds me of my brother in law hating on anything plastic (synthetic stocks, lighter weight scopes that you couldn't bludgeon something to death with…)

He always calls them "Fisher Price stocks" or "a Fisher Price scope" - really hates Nikon haha -

But I figure the jokes on him! Some of my kids' fisher price toys have been given to them by family who's own kids used the hell out of them after they themselves did when they were kids haha…Fisher Price isn't an insult, it's a synonym for being indestructible!!!

 

[Bravo 4]

I am just too lazy to process brass, and load ammo unless I absolutely have to for short and mid range hunting. I have a good supply of M118 LRs, so I just run them through a meplat cutter, in this case a Giraud kit in the Giraud trimmer.

Killed a few hogs with them through the boiler room, none had exit holes. No runners either. Lucky sometimes.

View attachment 463217

We have done this for a long time with the same ammo, seems to make it fracture more consistently in soft tissue. However I always advise army guys that altering issued ammo is frowned upon. Adjusting bullet seating depth could improve precision in certain rifles, I still have a Lee hand press with a .308 seating die in it. Would mark the OAL on the data books next to that rifle's muzzle velocity and round count.

 

[scpaul]

When I used to walk into Hog cover getting to a stand I carried a Charter Arms Bulldog 44 special with 200 gr hollow points loaded backwards for close range impact. I didn't trust a hollow point to penetrate then open. I was after the hydo-static shock at 10 feet or less. Thank God that I never had to test my theory.

 

[fordy]

While I like Hammer bullets and believe them to be a very good bullet, some of the "other guys" weren't wrong….just different opinion of bullet expectations! I still have issues with the intentional separation of tip petals…..they work very well on smaller big game. And obviously work quite well on larger big game…..though I have some concerns about penetration on large big game if a raking shot, or very heavy bone is encountered! memtb

Gday memtb
I heard on the grapevine you lot have had some fun over here I was coming for a laugh & got to this one as I thought that sounds interesting
But it is in a different way
So now I find myself going to need 2 coffees to hopefully explain why some do

Tinkering to me is raising the bar if we can show merit on where a weakness exists & one of the best " true biggame " bullet companies did just that for which they tinkered as they went on their journey.

That's woodleigh bullets & how they evolved from humble beginnings to be recognised as one of the best .
I've only spoken to Geoff a couple times never did any work for him but his book is worth a read imo of what they went through to get the respect their pills have worldwide still today ( factory fire sucked )

Yet others could see weaknesses in their pills & took a different approach/path
Which is fine for me but I'm still taking 50 cal woodleigh to zim in 2 weeks because they are ever so consistent in solids & until I see someone produce a better overall pill I'll not be swayed but as those tinkers play with things there is every possibility it will come
Not saying others like the ceb solid are no good as they are & one of the best for overall penertration but they don't quite reach the wound channel width of the hydro & im after buff so I'll be lucky to stop a hydro in 2 buff let alone one so how much penertration does one want
Yes that's part of the puzzle that us as hunters need to apply to get the good results to great results

So why don't I just take hydros & be done with it because from the tinkering crowd the bar has been raised on impact to tip & that has come from pills like Barnes ( still no reason in my book to not have a solid hence why hydros are coming)

Let's step back a bit in time & broadly speaking

Let's start with mushroom monos

The mushroom mono has the advantage of deeper penetration than any c&c & relies on speed to get a good wound channel
& not a lot has changed & some brands will open @ lower impacts but this creates other issues but I'd really love those guys to come clean on opening & imo open means nothing if preformance drops off to a level that's giving erratic results or extended runs

Then you have the push the mono to fast & petals are shed ( I've yet to find one brand I can't kill ) or due to being to brittle or to soft this causes issues in other fields the type of copper in it's molecular structure/properties is key here but the sometimes broached pills this helps but also hinders
Yes it's the same old same old you fix one part but create others , some were never seen till that point as the pill failed before it was seen but until the tinker's produced a better pill these were never known about so no one could try & fix what was once no known
Hence we have the pills like Barnes or the c&c of today
Yes on the whole they are more consistent than the pills of 50/100 years ago yet they will still kill just not as consistent across the board

Now move that to the she'd variety & if I'm correct your having trouble in accepting a shed petal mono will out penetrate a mushroom mono

I'll show some pictures soon that have proven that we cannot assume we will always be correct in thinking & I've made some huge mistakes on assumptions but it's how I learn

The shed monos overall will easily out penertrate a mushroom mono & with a greater wound channel ( length & width )
The impact to tip is also less with a shed than mushroom

The first pill I seen this in was a gpa as man those things killed ( in its velocity window) compared to Barnes
( I don't remember how many monos I've tested but it would surprise a few on how many are out there & still popping up as tinkers start a business one new one in Aussie just a couple months ago )

Now the gpa has been easily exceeded by the tinkering crowd & the velocity window has reached way greater coverage of those from years ago

Now go to ceb raptors & these pills watch them show a Barnes how penertration is achieved ( you need to clear ones head on a approach to use to get the most out of them ) & impact to tip is also reduced when you use raptors yet they won't fit everyone's liking as they have weaknesses & it's using them appropriately to get the best results

& the list goes on as the tinkering occurs then we come to the last one standing @ present from my observations
Yep hammers

Now hammers are no different they just raised the bar from the likes of that ceb but I'll note that a couple of companies were getting extremely close to surpassing but it's 2 simple yet often overlooked factors that let's them down time after time & I'll put Steve in that category in my early days of using hammers but I think he's got his mojo back now

I mean no disrespect to anyone & don't profess to know everything as I was recently asking how is that possible on a pill I've tested I still don't get it but I'm trying to work it out & parts are starting to get filled in until my mates throw a spanner in my works & I need to eat crow again

So a tinkering I like as it raises the bar
But I've seen a many of a sunken ship trying to get that gain

Here's a few pics of try & get these with a mushroom mono & exception of the elephant I was present with others
( the elephant was forwarded onto me around 2 weeks ago )
& no Barnes in same calibre will out penertrate these

Yes they are hammer pills because they are the best I've seen @ consistently producing results like this & impact to tip that is second to none


Take note of recovered shank nearly all mushroom monos will not make it past the paunch
These buff both had shanks make vitals

Here's the elephant & that's the off shoulder which it didn't quite get through the hide but I know very little else on this critter




Hope that settles your curiosity if not stay tuned something soon may

For those who are happy shooting what they are shooting with that's cool & may you continue to shoot well with them but I tip my hat to the tinkering community & look forward to tomorrows pills

Sorry for long winded post but I don't mind taking the time to type up for the nice people here

I'm off to tinker with my 500 pills

Cheers

 

[3chester]

Not really wantN to turn this into another" first liar doesn't stand a chance story hour". Sturm Ruger used to crank out those No.1-H Tropical rifles in 416 Rigby, for everyday hunters. Guy took his West on Elk hunt, loaded with Barnes X 300 gr, over a packD cartridge case of H4350. Had the lead cow Elk stop broadside at about 90 yards. That's good enuff, Kaboom, and that blue coated Barnes hit the hillside just behind her and exploded in the dirt and rocks, in a poof of dust n smoke. Kinda thought, was that a near miss? but, she dropped 1/2 second later, in her tracks. Think the Barnes boys borrowed that blue coating from the 20mm Vulcan cannon ammo we used in the 70's. It's probably just VHT header paint, anyways.

 

[Weaver93]

Why would you think it's better to leave it to the big companies, when the companies that make your favorite bullets started their roots by doing exactly what your describing, and moved on from there? That is how new ideas, technology, and bullet companies come about. It starts with tinkering. I don't see the purpose making a new thread specifically to speak poorly of it. Let it be, someone starting out by tinkering with a match bullet may end up rising to make something great. It's America, that's what we do.

There is innovation with new processes, materials and designs and then there is Wile E Coyote (super genius). Both are entertaining to follow, but only one is really beneficial to the industry.

 

[jessej]

Some guys just love to tinker.

That is how new ideas, technology, and bullet companies come about. It starts with tinkering.

It's America, that's what we do.

Yep

I will add,
MOST manufacturers goal is to make a good product that maximizes profit.
Very few are looking to maximize performance in that product due to the loss of profit.

 

[yogibearmech]

Just my opinion if they modify it and it kills the animal quicker then we should all do it. We owe it to our prey to keep them from suffering. If it doesn't kill them quickly then we should avoid it.

 

[Weaver93]

Yep

I will add,
MOST manufacturers goal is to make a good product that maximizes profit.
Very few are looking to maximize performance in that product due to the loss of profit.

I'm curious, how does maximizing terminal performance in a projectile lead to a loss in profit.

 

[Lazy D]

I'm curious as to what bullets we have today were a result of some home garage tinkering? I expect the bullet companies to be "tinkering" with their processes all the time. That's called R&D. But has their ever been someone who altered a bullet, called up a companies and say "Hey, look what I did" and the company give it a serious look?

 

[3chester]

I'm curious as to what bullets we have today were a result of some home garage tinkering? I expect the bullet companies to be "tinkering" with their processes all the time. That's called R&D. But has their ever been someone who altered a bullet, called up a companies and say "Hey, look what I did" and the company give it a serious look?

Think that's how the ol Man Nosler, came up with the Partition, after a failed Moose hunt. He did okay with it.

 

[Lazy D]

Think that's how the ol Man Nosler, came up with the Partition, after a failed Moose hunt. He did okay with it.

Was that the beginnings of the Nosler bullet company or the development of a new bullet?

 

[memtb]

Think that's how the ol Man Nosler, came up with the Partition, after a failed Moose hunt. He did okay with it.

True….he improved/modified/tinkered on a bullet ( the H-Mantle) developed by the German's years before his moose hunt!

A valid argument!

However, with many years of R&D by multiple companies, improved manufacturing processes, better (we hope) quality control of both raw materials and the finished product, and many bullets specifically designed for hunting purposes ……can we actually expect to transform a bullet "clearly designed" for another purpose into a superior "hunting" bullet?

It's not as easy to improve on a bullet as it was 70+ years ago….Jus Say'n! memtb

 

[memtb]

Was that the beginnings of the Nosler bullet company or the development of a new bullet?

IMO….. Primarily a new bullet company! And I do not fault him for that! memtb