Under an MOA but is it "GOOD"

Discussion in 'Long Range Hunting & Shooting' started by 375ultramag, Jun 25, 2014.

  1. 375ultramag

    375ultramag Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    57
    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2013
    I am just really getting into longer range shooting (past 600 yards) and last Sunday night I shot three 3 shot groups that all measured around 6" with the smallest measuring in at an honest 5 1/2" at 850 yards. I am shooting a Remington 700 Sendero SF ll in 300 ultra mag with a Leupold Mark 4 8.5-25x50 and running 185gr. Berger vld at 3050 fps. I guess my question is do you think that's "good" or should I be striving for better results than that. Thanks
     
  2. Tikkamike

    Tikkamike Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,353
    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2009
    the easy answer is that is a good group but always strive for better. Personally moa doesnt mean a thing to me. a 1 moa group at 300 yards is crap and if thats the best I can get that rifle is getting a new barrel. industry standard is moa or better. Set your own standards.
     

  3. dragman

    dragman Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,448
    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2011
    My question is why are you running it so slow???

    Keeping under MOA at 600 yards and further is very good for a newer shooter, heck a lot of experienced guys don't always do that.
     
  4. 375ultramag

    375ultramag Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    57
    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2013
    When i was building the load for the gun I ran it up to around 3200 fps but my groups opened up to much for me so I started slowing it down until my groups shrank to a 1/2 at 200 yards. With the turrets I have found that I don't need to push the speed as much because I can just dial for the distance.
     
  5. dragman

    dragman Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,448
    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2011
    Understandable.
    With that cartridge and some playing at the range maybe a powder change you could get the extra out of it if you wanted to maximize distance.
     
  6. FearNoWind

    FearNoWind Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,313
    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2012
    You don't say if you're shooting from a rest (if so what kind) or what shooting positions you're using. That would help to better evaluate your shooting results.
    First of all, your 600 yard target groups are just fine. I suspect you're still working out "shooter input" (rifle honeymoon) issues and when those are refined your 6" groups will tighten up.
    Secondly, I'm impressed that you've learned to work with the scope turrets. While MV is certainly important, faster isn't always better. With the data you listed you're still well above sub-sonic velocities at 1k by a full 34%. At this point, I would focus on good marksmanship techniques and see if I could get it consistently at .5 - .75 MOA at 600 with the load you're using.
    You've already learned that faster isn't necessarily better. Working for higher MV sometimes drives you into never-never land trying to find the next node and your rifle is unlikely to perform the same as the guy with an identical rifle using the same load.
     
  7. 375ultramag

    375ultramag Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    57
    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2013
    2 groups were fired from prone one with a lead sled and one with a bipod and rear bag and the other off a bench with the lead sled.
     
  8. cohunter14

    cohunter14 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    819
    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2012
    If you are shooting 1/2" groups at 200 yards, I would say you are good. Best thing to do at that point is work on your shooting at longer ranges. It is difficult to beat 1/4 MOA. Figure out what is making you shoot larger groups at longer ranges, i.e. form, wind, mirage, etc.
     
  9. FearNoWind

    FearNoWind Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,313
    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2012
    Take full notice of what cohunter14 had to suggest regarding form, wind, mirage, etc. . If your groups are consistent for each of those shooting styles (at least one of which essentially takes the shooter out of the picture) there most likely are some environmental issues to consider.
    A couple of other things to consider. lightbulb
    Use 'em if they help, ignore 'em if you choose.
    1. In prone, make every effort to align your body as much as possible with the direction of the rifle so that recoil travels straight through your torso and doesn't just deflect off your shoulder hold.
    2. In prone with bipod, "load" the bipod ever so slightly by pressing straight forward on the rifle with your shoulder so that the bipod legs have just a light amount of pressure on them. Keep your body as close to the ground as possible while still being comfortable with sighting.
    3. Cheek weld on the comb should be firm contact but should not put enough force on the stock to cause it to move in any direction and your head should be as erect as possible (avoid excessive leaning over the comb to sight on the target)
    4. Let the rifle point naturally. If you have to put pressure on the stock to move the rifle and hold the pressure to remain on target you're not letting the rifle point naturally.
    5. Hold the pistol grip of the stock with the first four fingers to the front and your thumb laying alongside the stock (don't wrap the thumb around the stock). That helps to ensure a straight back pressure on the trigger and prevents you from putting torque on the rifle. Hold the butt bag snuggly to squeeze it as necessary for elevation adjustments. Make sure the butt bag is placed squarely under the butt and not with more of the bag on one side than the other.
    6. There are several ways to control breathing - just make sure you're not taking air in or letting it out when the firing pin falls.
    7. Avoid the led sled; except perhaps for load testing.
     
  10. Tikkamike

    Tikkamike Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,353
    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2009

    You need to ditch the lead sled. hard on scopes and stocks and doesnt duplicate how you actually shoot. it may shoot good against something rigid but not your shoulder, and you arent getting any better at shooting using it.... if it has too much recoil you need to shoot it more and thatll probably go away, or add a brake or weight... if its still uncomfortable sell it and get a 300 win. more than likely you could duplicate or even exceed the performance of a 300 ultra at the velocities you are running. Not trying to bash you just some tips that will help out.

    **BTW do you have a 375 ultra? thats my all time favorite cartridge!
     
  11. 375ultramag

    375ultramag Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    57
    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2013
    Yeah I got a Remington 700 BDL stainless composite 375 ultra mag. It's an absolute hammer, running a 260gr. Nosler Accubond. I shot a black bear almost head on and the bullet traveled through 39" of the bear before exciting just in front of the hip. The bear never knew what hit him. As for the recoil of the 300 ultra, it don't bother me at all I just don't really have the equipment as far as sand bags and such so I was using what I had on hand. I thought I had everything a person could ever need for hunting/shooting but I have come to realize longrange shooting is a whole new ball game.
     
  12. Outlaw6.0

    Outlaw6.0 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,006
    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2010

    I have to echo mike's advice. In long range shooting, consistency is the name of the game. Bouncing back & forth between different rests is probably hurting you more than it's helping. Posture it different, recoil management is different, hold is different etc.

    If your load truely is rocking 1/4moa, spending more time behind the rifle, sticking to the fundamentals that have already been outlined should/will start shrinking those groups.


    As a side note, to subdue my own curiousity I have to ask one queston: Why are you using a 185grn bullet in a .300 Ultra?


    t
     
  13. 375ultramag

    375ultramag Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    57
    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2013
    I don't really know why I am running 185's it just seemed like a good choice at the time. They seem to work great on our deer here in Michigan. I have thought about going to a 210gr vld but I got 5 boxes of 185's left
     
  14. Outlaw6.0

    Outlaw6.0 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,006
    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2010

    No worries, at the velocities you're pushing them they might work alright. At the true velocity potential of the RUM, I forsee bad things at close range.

    I honestly wouldn't toy with the 210, with the advent of the 215 & 230 I'd look there first. A couple more options would be the Hornady 208grn A-max & 225 HPBT.


    t