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Discussion in 'Long Range Hunting & Shooting' started by cabelas90, Dec 29, 2008.
is shooting 1/2 moa at a thousand yrds posable for under $2000 bucks. please post some photos!
I believe the new Savage F-Class rifles chambered in 6BR and 6.5x284 could be capable of shooting 1/2 moa at 1000 yards. They run about $1100.00. I hope this helped.
I have 3 tikka's and all shoot 1/2 moa or better - two 270 wsm T3 lites and a 308 varminter. I haven't shot the 308 at a 1000 so I don't know what it will do at that distance but I get 2" groups at 600. The 270 wsm will shoot 5" groups at 1000. I paid $570 and $400 for the 270 wsms and $630 for the 308.
If you want to spend more you could do a custom project - here are some rough numbers:
800 stiller action
600 barrel + chambering
65 trigger guard
I would say shooting a few 1/2 MOA 3 shot groups would be pretty easy under $2000. But start raising the number of shots to 5 or 10 and saying you will ALWAYS be 1/2 MOA or better, and all bets are off. Shooting 1/2 MOA at 1000yds is easier said than done. And it takes a lot more than expensive gear.
If you're shooting in a 1000yd indoor range with no wind, that makes it a LOT easier. But conditions are rarely that favorable.
I have 3 rifles that will shoot 1/2 MOA or better 1000yd 3 shot groups in perfect conditions, only one of them cost more than $2000 (rifle only).
The 3 rifles I mentioned are as follows:
1) 7mm Rem mag- Rem 700, Brown Precision stock, Timney trigger, 24" barrel Leupold 4.5x14x40
2) 338 Edge - Savage 10, Laminate Joel Russo A5 stock, 28" Pac-Nor Barrel, DE Brake, Nightforce NXS 3.5x15x50
3) 338 Allen Mag, Kirby Allen custom, Bat action, Jewel Trigger, 32" Lilja barrel, McMillan A5 stock, APS brake, Nightforce NXS 3.5x15x50
Don't know if this helped, but thats the way I see it,
My 2 best 3 shot groups at 1K were with a factory remington 700 24" 308 (900.00) with a used McMillan stock (300.00) and a used but mint lupy mk 4 10X (750.00) The total here is less than 2000 bucks.
BTW those two groups were 3.5" and 4.5" The same rifle with other loads has shot too many .5 MOA groups at 1K to remember.
Cost of a rifle that is capable of it...certainly could be less than $2000.
Cost of shooting, gaining ability and experience, and actually doing it...not so certainly less than $2000.
Cost of my advice...certainly worth what you paid for it.
I freely confess to being a Tikka T-3 kool-aid drinker.
I think staying within the $2k budget would be pushed if you include the funds needed for optics. To get repeatable results, is 14 power enough? 20 power? 36 power?
If you are saying $2 for the rifle and pic "any scope" of your liking - then dropping a $1.6k Nightforce scope on the package would make this goal very easy to meet.
If you can not see it you ain't getting there.
Your question has been covered pretty well so I will not add much to that. Is 1/2 moa possible for under $2K, certainly.
My reason for posting is not to really answer your original question but instead to put a light on shooting 1/2 moa at 1000 yards.
First off, its hard to shoot 1/2 moa at this range. To be honest, in most shooting coditions, 1/2 moa is not realisitic to expect. If you look at many of the 1000 yard BR match results, my main experience with this is with the 50 cal shooters association and we get match results all the time from all the matches including the world championships in Raton, NM. These are the best of the best in the 50 cal world. They shoot five shot groups for the most part.
If you could average 1/2 moa groups at these matches, you would likely win every match of the year.
To put this into perspective. The 50 cal association will award a match shooter with a screamer patch which means the group on target is less then 0.6 moa. This is considered an extremely rare and impressive feat. And thats not even 1/2 moa........
Now there are many groups fired every year that go well under 1/2 moa and generally you will see at least a couple groups a year that will break 3" ctc. But, this is extremely rare and thats from the best of the best that do this all the time with the best rifles in the world made for one purpose, to wind 1000 yard BR matches. These rifles often cost more then $6000 and its not unusual to see $10,000 invested in a rifle system.
Again, if you can average 1/2 moa at 1000 yards, you would likely win every match that year.....
Now that is not to say that all of these rifles or at least most of these rifles are capable of 1/2 moa or better easily, then we throw in the human element which in most cases will take a rifles accuracy potential up to at least that 1/2 moa range or larger.
Then you add in the environmental conditions combined with the humans ability or lack there of to read, predict and adjust for those conditions and your 1/2 moa accuracy potential of that rifle/human combo will likely increase to 1 moa or even more.
I have seen matches won with an Agg. of over 12" ctc in conditions that were very windy or with extreme variable mirage. At first glance, 1.2 moa is not impressive, but in those conditions, its more impressive.
Now, when talking about shooting recreationally, we can pick and choose when we shoot, where we shoot to some degree and we can eliminate many of the enviornmental conditions that adversly effect precision shooting. Can not do that at a match, the date is set, you go and you shoot.
So just to make my point clear, I am in no way saying that 1/2 moa accuracy at 2000 yards is not possible for $2000. That would be a very foolish comment, of course it is, just keep in mind that making a 1/2 moa group at 1000 yards is certainly dependant on the rifles ability but just as much so is your ability.
And I am also not saying your not up to it. Just realize that sometimes it just is not practical to expect this level of accuracy in the conditions your shooting in.
That was very well said Kirby. It put a lot of things in perspective. I think the question asked was probably a rhetorical one.....he knew without a doubt that it could be done. I think the key word in your response was "REPEATABLE". My shooting expertise has mostly been in the trapshooting world. If he had asked that question of me concerning a trapgun, IE "can i shoot 200 straight with a trapgun under 2K"....my response would have been , "of course, but can you do it consistently?" I think the human factor of these 2 disciplines would be close to the same, even given perfect conditions for both. AJ
very well put kirby.
I think shooting a 200 handicap is tougher - much tougher. And you are correct about the head game issues.
In laymens terms 1/2" group at 1000 yars, wow! I didn't think that was possible. I strive to get a gun to shoot 1/2" at 100 yards. When i used to shoot on the IBS circuit in the 90's with my 2,500.00 6ppc at 200 yards if you shot in the 5's you was holding your own. I didn't think the world's record at 1000 yards was even close to that.
He is talking 1/2 Minute Of Angle, or a little over 5" at 1000yds.
(1) I want to scream no at the top of my lungs, but, as the saying goes.....anything is possible.
(2) What Kirby said.
(3) If I could have shot 1/2 MOA all year, I would have placed 2 spots higher on the IBS 1K shooter of the year list. Maybe even three places if you include GOD on the list!!!
I'M JUST SAYIN