Unconventional 338

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by Tyler Kemp, Jul 15, 2008.

  1. Tyler Kemp

    Tyler Kemp SPONSOR

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    I was thinking about what would be good for 600 and 1000 yard prone matches, and those big 338 bullets going slow still have very low wind drift. Sights have plenty of elevation, and you can always get an angled base, so scope elevation isn't a problem either.

    I was thinking a 338-08 Ackley might spit out the 300 grain SMK @ 2100 fps.

    What about the 338-06 Ackley? 2300 fps? Recoil would be pretty low in a heavy match rifle.

    Even at 2000 fps, the 300 grain SMK beats all 22 calibers at 223 velocities, and some slower 6mm's. At 2300 fps it beats all 6mm's and 22's, and would have pretty much endless barrel life.

    In a 15 lb gun your recoil is about 15 and 17 ft lbs, respectively. Is this idea feasible, or should I just get the standard 223 and be done with it? A little case with a big 300 grain bullet seated way out there might draw some attention!
     
  2. AJ Peacock

    AJ Peacock Well-Known Member

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    How about a 338/300WSM?

    Speaking of unconventional 338's, necking the 300WSM up to 338 seems to have been successful. I don't think it would be too hard to get 2400fps with a 26" barrel (assuming proper throating for the 300 SMK). It would use a short action which is nice.

    The 338-08 Ackley would be pretty hot to run 2000fps with the 300SMK.

    I'd be surprised if a 338-06 Ackley would have enough case capacity to get it much over 2300, and you are talking a long action.

    AJ
     

  3. Varminator 911

    Varminator 911 Well-Known Member

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    Always full of great ideas!!

    Tyler:

    My understanding is muzzle brakes aren't allowed in any of the matches I've seen or heard about. Even the great shooters are bothered by recoil after 40-60 rounds. Even with a 6.5-284 recoil can be a factor in a long match. At the low velocities you are looking at, don't think you can beat the high BC 243 bullets near 3000 fps. With a muzzle brake, I think bigger, higher BC bullets would rise to the top of many long range venues.

    I do think a 338 hunting bullet with a BC near 0.9 would make an interesting carry weight rifle at 338 WM speeds, say 2500 to 2600 fps for a 265 to 280 gn bullet. With a muzzle brake that won't be bad in a 8.5 lb rig. With that BC, would be a 1000 yd rig.

    Keep those interesting posts coming!!!
     
  4. Tyler Kemp

    Tyler Kemp SPONSOR

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    This would be a switch barrel rig, with another barrel in 338 Edge for long range hunting. (and different bolt head)

    2400 fps would raise recoil above 20 ft lbs. I could always do stuff to lower recoil, such as mercury recoil reducers, a gra-coil buttpad, but I'm not sure how fun it would be too shoot 88 rounds through in prone.

    To varminator, I was at a 600 yard match on Saturday and a guy was complaining about his 7mm-08 hurting him, but then others were shooting M1 Garands which aren't near as heavy as a match rifle and they shot very well. I heard people saying muzzle blast bothered them more than the recoil. But then again, it is about 15 lbs recoil, 50% than a 308 in the same weight gun.

    Here's some ballistics in a 10 MPH wind

    338 300g SMK @ 2000 fps:
    600 yards 25.6 MOA drop (doesn't really matter), 4.5 MOA windage

    223 80g SMK @ 2850:
    600 yards 14.4 Moa drop, 5.5 MOA windage (that's hot 223 load!)

    243 107g SMK @ 2850:
    600 yards 13 MOA drop, 4.1 MOA windage (it wins...so far)

    338 300g SMK @ 2000fps:
    1000 yards 55.7 MOA drop, 8.1 MOA windage

    223 80g SMK @ 2850:
    1000 yards 37.7 MOA drop, 11.4 MOA windage

    243 107g SMK @ 2850:
    1000 yards 30.9 MOA drop, 8.1 MOA windage (dangit!)

    But shoot that bullet a bit faster from a 338-06 Ackley and it wins by a good bit. The new Berger 338's have a BC a fair bit higher than the SMK's I hear...
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2008
  5. MagMan

    MagMan Well-Known Member

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    It's good to see you back AJ.
     
  6. Tyler Kemp

    Tyler Kemp SPONSOR

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    Imagine a 40 degree shoulder on it...:D
    [​IMG]
     
  7. MagMan

    MagMan Well-Known Member

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    also, don't forget about the feed rails if you were planning on a repeater.
     
  8. Tyler Kemp

    Tyler Kemp SPONSOR

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    It's going on the Savage target action, so single shot only. Will eject fired brass from the 338 Edge.
     
  9. royinidaho

    royinidaho Writers Guild

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    How 'bout this.

    338 RUM in a single shot configuration in a Rem 700 action.

    Just barely long enough to eject loaded Aluminum tipped loads without any action alterations.

    Is behind the edge only 100 to 200 FPS depending on who loads which.

    85 or so grains of 50 BMG produces around 2400 w/225 NAB out of a Remmy 26" sporter barrel. With the Holland QD brake there is no recoil.

    Pluses:
    - No need for a second barrel
    - No need for a strange and pretty much useless chamber such as 338-08
    - No need for barrel vise or wrench.
    - No need for extra dies etc.
    - With 265s, 300 SMK Edge performance is duplicated or possibly improved.

    Minuses:
    - Not exciting at all.
    - Not nifty
    - No strutting rights at the range.

    Conclusion: Go with the switch barrel idea which allows much bigger dreamin';) That's what I'd do.
     
  10. Tyler Kemp

    Tyler Kemp SPONSOR

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    Booooo...if I can convince dad this is a "great" idea, I would have one funky cartridge not seen at many (any?) high power matches!
     
  11. lazylabs

    lazylabs Well-Known Member

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    Doesn't ruger/hornaday have a small 338 mag coming out or is out?
     
  12. britz

    britz Well-Known Member

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    You want to use a 338 federal to seat the heaviest bullets. Wouldnt' the recoil be a little high for a F class rifle? I was checking the recoil for a 338 win mag and then I just imput the data for what I would guess a 338-06 improve would do compared to a 338 win - I was guessing at 2250 fps w/ a 300 gr bullet. A 12 pound rifle will still kick at about 23 foot pounds - about midway between a sporter weight 300 WSM - and 30-06 shooting 180's. Even if you bump the rifle up to 15 pounds it would be stomping around 19 footpounds - more like a sporter 270 shooting heavy bullets. If you could take the punishment, your on to something. What about just taking a 308 and pushing a 240 smk through it??
     
  13. Varminator 911

    Varminator 911 Well-Known Member

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    Need smaller caliber high BC bullets

    The new Henson 308 220 Al tipped bullet has a bc near 0.9. So that would get you back to the 308. But Henson, and hopefully Wildcat, are going to build smaller caliber Al tipped high bc bullets. If you can keep the bc anywhere near 0.9 and get down to 264 caliber or smaller, then the recoil becomes much more manageable. A 0.8-0.9 bc bullet out of the 6.5mm-284 would nearly there. Maybe they can get near 0.8 bc out of the 6mm and keep velocity near 3000 fps.

    I'm really stoaked about the Henson 220. In a light rifle in 300WSM or heavier in 300 RUM. That will kill feral pigs a long ways off.
     
  14. Tyler Kemp

    Tyler Kemp SPONSOR

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    The prices you quoted me are simply not shootable for high power. 88 rounds just in one match, plus practice, etc.

    If you wanted to sponsor me, I would build a rifle around your bullets...as long as you kept providing them!