trouble chambering resized cases

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by cdn shooter, Aug 30, 2009.

  1. cdn shooter

    cdn shooter Active Member

    Messages:
    33
    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2009
    Looking for insight into why I have to really pry the bolt closed on cases I've full length resized. I know some of them have been at their limit for pressure but the primer pockets aren't loose and I've measured them at the head, just with a caliper but I cant see the difference between a 2nd case and one of the 6th time cases that are causing problems. Help I dont want to throw away 100 cases that have no other defects.
     
  2. AJ Peacock

    AJ Peacock Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,229
    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2005
    Are you pushing the shoulder back on the cases as you resize them?

    If you aren't resizing enough (not pushing the shoulder back), you will actually be pushing the shoulder forward as you size the body of the cartridge (this makes the case longer).

    Measure a fired brass from base to a point on the shoulder and then measure a resized brass to see if you resizing them enough.

    AJ
     

  3. britz

    britz Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,217
    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2007
    just a thought... make sure your die is set so the shell holder is hitting the bottom of the die if your full length sizing. As AJ pointed out, you may be just not pushing the shoulder back far enough. You should have it back a couple thousandths farther back than the original chamber dimension. An old pistol case sometimes works as a rudimentary headspace measuring tool. Put the old fired pistol case over the shoulder and measure the distance from the base of your rifle case to the base of your pistol case. Compare a new brass to a resized one to a piece that was fired in your rifle with some sticky bolt lift. you should be a couple thou shorter than the fired case from your rifle.
     
  4. BountyHunter

    BountyHunter Writers Guild

    Messages:
    4,800
    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2007
    Mftr dies are varying tolerances between mftrs. Sometimes setting the die all the way touch the shell holder may push the shoulder back way to far and actually give you a very slight bulge at the edge of the shoulder that is causing the problem with chambering. Plus it will likely give you excess headspace in many cases.

    The reason I know that, is that happened to me about 20 years ago and gave me fits until Dave Tooley straightened me out.

    You really need to measure unfired brass, fired 1x and fired cases that are hard to chamber. Measure the headspace with either a bump gauge or hornady tool that measures that. All you want is the .001-.002 push back until it will smoothly chamber.

    BH
     
  5. bigngreen

    bigngreen Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,836
    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2008
    I've had a similar problem with my 270 WSM, set all the way down to the shell holder it would not bump the shoulder so I trimmed it down and got the die down and got the shoulder bumped, things work perfect now. I had to do that after about 3-4 firings, some now have close to 20 on them with no problems.
     
  6. cdn shooter

    cdn shooter Active Member

    Messages:
    33
    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2009
    Thanks for the help. I have my die set to the shellholder so mabey I have to do some trimming on the die. I have also had the squished shoulder problem. Not long ago with a 7-08 and a redding die so I watch out for that one now. I'll post if trimming the die works. Thanks again
     
  7. lever-hed

    lever-hed Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    248
    Joined:
    May 8, 2008
    .custom barrel?, factory barrel?, need more info.

    most likely headspace is my best guess.
     
  8. lever-hed

    lever-hed Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    248
    Joined:
    May 8, 2008
    Bounty,

    precisely - but, if he's got a tight spec chamber, a standard die may not cut it.

    otherwise, if its factory, maybe try touch + 1-2 turns.
     
  9. britz

    britz Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,217
    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2007
    a shellholder is only $6 and a die is 40 so I'd consider shaving a shellholder a little first.
     
  10. cdn shooter

    cdn shooter Active Member

    Messages:
    33
    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2009
    The rifle is a Savage 12fvss in 300 WSM everthimg is stock. I tried shaving the die a little, like a couple thousanths. the first shell into it got stuck and I destroyed the die getting it out. I guess can buy that neck die I wanted.
     
  11. bigngreen

    bigngreen Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,836
    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2008
    I'm also shooting a Savage model 12 fvss but in a 270 WSM. I had the same thing happen to me with RCBS dies, I ground mine back like .060 I think and re-chamfered the inside, then I was able to set it to get the shoulder back so it would chamber, I'm just bumping the shoulder enough to allow an easy chambering. I also stuck a couple cases, mainly with the Remington brass as it takes a #14 instead of the #43 shell holder the Win and Norma brass takes. My dad came up with a puller to save the die but not before I screwed up the decapping stem. I'm going to order FL Redding dies next so I can get rid of some run out I'm getting.
     
  12. kraky2

    kraky2 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    262
    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2005
    These problems are very common with the wsm cases. It's tough, thick brass that seems to spring back alot. Plus I'm not really sure all the manufacturers got the tolerances down perfectly when making dies for the chamberings....perhaps the rifle people didn't do so good either.
    Anyone with a bench grinder can take .010-.020 off the top of a shellholder. Messing with the die doesn't make much sense to me unless you are a machinist or have a buddy that is.
    The top of the shellholder has absolutely no function during the resizing operation so you really can't screw anything up by taking a bit off it.
     
  13. Boss Hoss

    Boss Hoss Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,843
    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2005
    There are so many things that can cause these problems ---- just the big ones first:

    Lube issue---must be consistent—if lube is applied properly then all cases should feel the same when going through the sizing operation—if not stop and take a look at what happened
    You mentioned 6 shootings---this brass need to be annealed as it has hardened significantly which will make brass “spring back” less and less----lube properly and size a new case then chamber and see how it works
    Die adjustment which in some cases esp with a custom chambering will require trimming of the bottom of the sizing die---have had a few of these over time


    We typically want to blame things on our equipment but often times it is our process which needs to be refined.
     
  14. Varmint Hunter

    Varmint Hunter Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,522
    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2001
    All good advice but here is something that no one mentioned:

    Several years ago I had a similar problem with a 6mm Rem rifle and standard FL sizing dies. I checked everything repeatedly and could not figure out why the resized brass chambered tightly. In the end, I determined that the neck sizer button was actually pulling the neck/shoulder up as the button was being pulled up through the case during the sizing operation. Cleaning and lubing the necks helped but did not eliminate the problem. A replacement button, along with clean and lightly lubed necks fixed the problem once and for all.

    You may want to try sizing a few of the problem cases with the expander button out of the die and see if they fit in the chamber any better. It's an easy check.

    Personally, I believe that neck expander buttons are always a potential problem as far as inducing concentricity problems in reloaded ammo so I do not use them any more. All of my dies are bushing dies of one brand or another, mostly Redding. Using the proper bushing size and cleaning necks works great without the need to lube the inside of the necks. It's the expander ball that makes inside neck lubing important, IMO anyway.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2009