Titanium Rail Bases, Pros and Cons

Discussion in 'Long Range Scopes and Other Optics' started by Broz, Jan 7, 2010.

  1. Broz

    Broz Well-Known Member

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    I am considering one of these Titanium bases that Murphy Percision makes for a new build I am doing.

    MurphyPrecision.com - Scope Bases, Rings, and Assorted Shooting Accessories.

    I think the strenght of the material will be good, I can get it with #8 screws and it will cut some weight. Plus it will look great on my new Defiance Action.:)

    Anyone here tried one or had one in their hands to examine? I haven't called yet but I do not see a recoil lug. That would be nice to have.

    Is anyone else making Titanium Rails?

    What you all think?

    Jeff gun) gun)
     
  2. Broz

    Broz Well-Known Member

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    wow, Nobody has one of these?

    You mean I might be the first kid on the block with one? :)

    I was hoping for some input.

    Thanks!

    Jeff gun) gun)
     

  3. geargrinder

    geargrinder Well-Known Member

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    It will be stronger, it will still weigh twice as much as aluminum.

    Myself, I can think of many things I would buy before I'd spend $200 on a scope base.
     
  4. jmden

    jmden Well-Known Member

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    Broz--coupla thing I wonder about...

    Like you say, would be good to have a recoil lug.

    Also, doesn't appear to be an extended rail design such as Glen Seekins of Seekins Precision offers for 1/2 the cost. Maybe Glen could bead blast a rail for you and not anodize it so it would have the look you seem to want? I don't know. Might still save some $ and have a lighter setup with extended rail and lug.

    I've heard from a Boeing eng. friend of mine that when they used titanium in planes and had to do drilling/machining the metal would have to be kept cool, or it would lose some of it's adventageous properties. Not sure if that is going on here, but it it is, it would certainly make the machining process more difficult and costly.

    I've done a bit of research into titanium vs. 7000 series Aluminum (have to be very aware of the various alloys offered in each and their respective negs/pos/strengths, etc.) and have found that for what I was looking for, it was awfully hard to beat the 7000 series Aluminum for weight vs. strength vs. cost ratio--you could even take the cost out of the equation and it was still hard to beat 7000 series Al. For something that is machined to a specific dimension (vs. engineered to specific strength, for example) as Geargrinder said, Al will be lighter and 7000 series Al already beats out some steel alloys in strength.

    For instance, titanium brakes may be lighter that SS brakes, but they won't be as light as 7000 series Al brakes...but I'm guessing smiths don't use Al for that due to it's low melting point.

    I'll stop blathering now...:rolleyes:
     
  5. Broz

    Broz Well-Known Member

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    Good points.. I am after strength. The more cheap bases I am around, the more I am seeing the value of a good base is money well spent. I have had my last go with a cheap flexy base. On a bolt rifle, I see the base as a reinforcing bridge that strengthens the area of the action that is going to hold the scope true to the barrel. Not a place I care to cut cost.

    I have used many titanium parts in racing. From valves to Spring retainers holding 900 lb springs to Bell housings transfering over 3000 HP. Titanium is very tough stuff. We used a lot of it and it was amazingly strong, and very light for the strength you get.

    May be just in my head, but I have a fear of an aluminum base not having the strength in the bottom of the screw holes to do as good as job as steel. I have seen aluminum pull and bend in these type of areas.

    But I have not used one of Seekins bases. Does Seekins keep these on the shelf?

    Jeff
     
  6. jmden

    jmden Well-Known Member

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    I think that 7000 series Al (certainly some alloys within this series) may be a different animal that what most of us typically deal with, namely softer, weaker 6000 series Al. In some cases 7071-T6 has a yield strength higher than some titanium alloys, as I recall. And, screw hole bottoms yielding shouldn't be as great of an issue in a rail with a lug...unless I'm interpreting what you mean by 'yielding' incorrectly. The lug should take any load that occurs such that damage to screw hole bottoms shouldn't occur anyway. Am I making sense?

    Call Glen directly. He often answers the phone. I wouldn't bother emailing and haven't had a great deal of luck with leaving phone messages. Just try him every once in a while or so throughout a workday when you think about it. I usually get through within a day or two doing this.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2010
  7. Chas1

    Chas1 Well-Known Member

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    It would seem to me that the weak link to going with titanium beyond maybe machining and cost is the SS screws....Like saying the bridge is built out of titanium but the bolts holding it together are SS...just my 2 cents...I agree with others and would go with good quality aluminum base if you want to save weight. Personally I like the SS ones but, they do weigh a little more.
     
  8. Michael Eichele

    Michael Eichele Well-Known Member

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    I am looking to learn something here.

    I recently had a delima on regards to scope bases. I too was looking to save weight and went to a two peice base which ended up causing ALOT of accuracy and consistency issues from stress. Out of dire neccessity I bought a NF steel one peice base and bedded it to my action for scope/action stress relief. I needed a solution quick as I had a very important hunt less than 1 week away and couldnt worry about weight. The change worked and accuracy and consistency returned.

    Now that the hunt is over I was concidering getting an AL base to save weight. My concern is that I have heard from more than one source that Al and steel react differently in differing tempratures. Is there any truth to this? Is AL on steel as reliable and consistent as steel on steel??
     
  9. Chas1

    Chas1 Well-Known Member

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    I don't think you'll get any chemical reaction between the steel and aluminum. As far as their differences in how quickly each heats up or cools down ie one quicker than the other...I'm not metalogist but I'm thinking steel is more dense so may heat and cool slower than aluminum but I can't imagine a scenario where this would effect accuracy or platform integrity.
     
  10. geargrinder

    geargrinder Well-Known Member

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    Aluminum and steel have different rates of thermal expansion.

    That means that as the tempurature changes, steel and aluminum will expand at different rates.
     
  11. jmden

    jmden Well-Known Member

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    You know, Broz, you could just pick up a BAT HRPIC and then you wouldn't have this dilemma! :D Don't say I didn't tell you so! :D

    [​IMG]
     
  12. Broz

    Broz Well-Known Member

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    That is a good point with the expansion rates. I guess it could cause a problem using an aluminum base to a steel receiver in extreme cold or hot conditions. Especially when epoxy bedded at 70 degrees then taken to hunt in -24 below.

    I am leaning toward trying the titanium, but inquiring about a recoil lug or do like Ken Ferrel does on some of his and add an angled set screw for an adjustable lug.

    jmden, It was quite a process deciding on n action. After all the calls, some returned some not:rolleyes: and the time frame for bear season..

    This is what I have for the build with an extended tenion (sp).

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2010
  13. jmden

    jmden Well-Known Member

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    Broz,

    That's a beauty!

    How did you arrive at doing the extended tenon? Just more support for a long barrel?
     
  14. Chas1

    Chas1 Well-Known Member

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    +1 w/JMden love the BAT action. Broz-Goergeous action, looks great.