The Ultimate Hunting Bullet

[biff's reloading]

I think this was basically the idea behind the eld-x. Not a full partition, but they only open so far. I shot 2 does with 212s from my rum last year. 190y thru both shoulders, drt, quarter sized exit. And close front end shot, drt, exited left hip. Both left wound channels about 3-5" the entire way. I cant imagine a better job is possible. I'll try to get a few more with them this fall. I also got 3 woodchucks with the same loads. Split em all in half. What else can a bullet do?

 

[86alaskan]

The problem I found with the ELD-x was that it can still be too frangible. We shot a couple caribou at about 200yds with the 143gr 6.5mm. MV was 2750fps, so impact wasn't anything high or special. the only bullet that exited didn't hit anything solid, and killed decently enough. the others hit ribs and exploded inside, not bad on open tundra, but in the woods that can make for trick tracking. I'd much rather prefer a bullet that pops open and passes through like the NP or copper solid.

 

[Reloader]

Another vote for the Edge TLR. I bought a box to tinker and haven't spent much time with them, but they seem like they want to play out of a stock bbld action 700 SPS 270 Win bedded in a Manners EH6:

If they perform close to the TBT on game it will be a win-win and IMO about perfect for a hunting bullet.

loder

 

[NeedForSpeed]

I have long been a fan of two bullet types:

1. The Partition/A frame design
2. The VLD/High bc, penetrate 2" and open violently dumping energy design

These are very different models, but to me it has always seemed that the best of both worlds would be a VLD shaped Partition with a thinner jacket that would penetrate 2", open aggressively, but still retain some mass to ensure an exit.

Basically, I think it is time for Nosler to modernize the Partition. Don't blast me tradition NP fans, I would suggest doing this as a 2nd offering, not a replacement. The traditional NP still has it's place for shorter ranges and tougher game.

Thoughts?

Isnt that basically what an Accubond projectile is? Keeps 60-70 percent of its weight but mushrooms and fragments too

 

[Hondo64d]

I have long been a fan of two bullet types:

1. The Partition/A frame design
2. The VLD/High bc, penetrate 2" and open violently dumping energy design

These are very different models, but to me it has always seemed that the best of both worlds would be a VLD shaped Partition with a thinner jacket that would penetrate 2", open aggressively, but still retain some mass to ensure an exit.

Basically, I think it is time for Nosler to modernize the Partition. Don't blast me tradition NP fans, I would suggest doing this as a 2nd offering, not a replacement. The traditional NP still has it's place for shorter ranges and tougher game.

Thoughts?

Doesn't the Long Range Accubond pretty much cover all these bases?

John

 

[TXAoudadKlr]

fusion is a "plated" type of bullet, not a jacketed, they are higher BC than partition but not tipped

problem with modifying the partition is manufacturing process-- it would be hard to keep consistency and quality control while putting a tip on them for better BC-- bonded bullets work similar to the partition but not exactly the same-- the new tlr has a solid copper base, but the copper makes it longer (thus requiring a faster twist rate) or they have to keep the weights lighter than like lead core bullets thus slightly reducing the BC--its all a compromise--until they can come up with a good manufacturing technique to keep the QC high, the partitions wont have a high BC or plastic tip

there were some copper/lead bullets that were designed the opposite of the lrx-- with the lead in the back--not sure they are still around

then there were the lead in the nose, tungsten flat faced core in the rear bullets-- but tungsten is considered AP

From what I understand they also weren't particularly accurate.
The TLR is not a new design either, Winchester tried with their XP3 but also had issues with accuracy.

 

[Jon Bischof]

We can all see the problem from the experiences posted in this thread so far. We all want "the perfect bullet"--High BC, super accurate, deep penetration with a good exit hole, great expansion and tissue disruption without fragmentation or losing too much mass. That's the perfect bullet.

It doesn't really exist, but these qualities every maker claims for their bullet and every hunter wants these attributes. But the Laws of Physics demand a trade-off between expansion and penetration. And many because of the downside of this trade-off, do opt to use cannons that are more than enough cartridge for the game and so often more than enough added weight and recoil for the hunter.

Bullet makers have come at this problem from a number of different angles and approaches. The Partition was Nosler's early attempt to keep an expanding bullet from flying apart inside the critter so that the hunter would always get an exit hole. Not really designed for long range accuracy, but it did expand and usually did exit.

Other mechanical locking methods where employed like Hornady's Interlock. But none of the mechanically locked cores were built for accuracy and did not have high BC.

The the tipped bullet craze started with Nosler's Ballistic Tip, which expanded like crazy, jellified the critter's innards and sometimes did not exit.

Then Barnes tried the all copper X-Bullet, which everybody has tried at one time or another.

Federal's Fusion is a unique approach. Like other hunting bullets, the jacket is pre-cut to induce expansion. But unlike others, the "jacket" is electro-chemically added to the bullet one molecule at a time, so that the bullet ends up being very well balanced and completely concentric with a fairly good BC. I have used these for decades on deer. They pretty much execute deer without much if any travel after the shot. And they always leave a blood trail from the exit hole. I can't testify how well they perform on Elk or Bear, but on deer they are a near instant death sentence.

Now the ELD is all the rage for its good BC, but it does have the problem 86Alaskan just pointed out of not always giving you an exit hole to trail blood.

Unless the rules of Physics change, it will always be a balancing act between expansion and penetration, the Ying and Yang of Velocity versus Mass and Paradisical Pursuit of perfectly repeatable POI at various distances.

I realize none of this really helps you except maybe it helps a bit to accept that this is not easy.

 

[Unoboats]

I'm not so sure that Swift Siroccos don't do what you are asking. High bc and great terminal performance. Have had great results with them on elk and pronghorn with 6.5-284 and 260's. As well as I have shot them on to steel out to 950. May be worth a look. I'm still a fan of ethical shots on anamal s under 600 yards for the average joe, not to slam proficient shooters who shoot on a regular basis.
Just my 2 cents.

 

[sab]

Personally, I think y'all are asking for the impossible (with current tech). Although I'm a long time member of this forum, I'm really not a LR hunter. The partition is THE bullet I use in my primary rifles, but its limitations keep my shots at under 500 yds (300 yds in some rifles). Partitions don't expand very well beyond that. It just takes a lot of impact energy for a Partition to do its thing. Putting a better tip and a boat tail on it may get you accuracy at long range, but it still won't perform well.

On the other hand, there are other bullets out there that I think (I don't know for sure because I have no first-hand experience with them) are horrible under 300 yds because they explode, but at longer ranges, they work. It simply isn't possible to have a bullet that performs close and far.

If I ever decided to do some LR hunting, I'd likely use my Partition loads for up to 400 or 500 yds, and work up a load with a different bullet for longer distances. That's the only way I believe you can cover all shot ranges and be assured of an ethical result. Just my opinion.

 

[Zen Archery]

There isn't one...
Too many different types of animals on this planet to hunt.
I won't send a bonded bullet through a W/T deer or pronghorn.
I also won't send a SP into an elk or bear.

 

[Jon Bischof]

I'm waiting for the Star Trek Photon Projectile Rifle that cooks your deer for you at the same time it kills it. Or better yet, a bullet that envelopes the critter within a force field and then pressure cooks it for you. Hmmmm, I'm hungry for some deer meat now.

 

[DRock]

Federal EDGE TLR! These bullets are available for reloading and are the hybrid bullet you are describing. Partitioned high BC bullet with a bonded front core. Bonded bullets are inherently not as accurate as a match bullet but my tests have been sub-MOA and plenty accurate for a hunting bullet. BC's have been spot on and are VERY good for the weight class of bullet. This attached images is 800 yards.
I have only killed an antelope so far with this bullet but have plans to hunt larger and tougher game this fall. I am shooting the 155 TLR (.610bc) in my 280AI over RL16 at just over 3000fps. I have also loaded the 175 gr for my 300WSM and the 200 gr for my 300 WBY. I have found they like to jump a little bit so when you find the sweet spot they shoot great. Give them a try and lets keep Federal making this bullet for us!

 

[swe123]

Anything designed to do everything rarely does anything well.

 

[nimrod_gn]

Hammer Bullets - based upon this research: http://www.rathcoombe.net/sci-tech/ballistics/wounding.html a must read for anyone really interested in terminal ballistics