Single-shot VS. repeater action

Discussion in 'Equipment Discussions' started by hey, Nov 26, 2006.

  1. hey

    hey Member

    Messages:
    14
    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2005
    Hi all,

    I’ve been reading this forum for a quite while and always appreciate the usefully information you guys provided here. I just started building my first long-Lange rifle, well actually the only thing on the way is Borden rifle’s new Alpine repeater action:
    http://bordenrifles.com/Alpine_4/index.html
    I initially ordered the single shot action but Jim said there will be bit wait for single-shot, so I change it to repeater, while talking to my friend he said I should wait for the single-shot as it’s stronger and is better for the scope, also is easier to bed too. So I’m in bit dilemma now, to send back will certainly cost quite bit as I’m in New Zealand. My plan is build a light weight 7mm SAUM(less than 8lbs) rifle. Oh by the way, my friend also suggest to use one piece mount base, but Jim thinks at moment nobody makes them, is it possible to get one custom made? Or does it really help?
    Any advice will be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks
    Yibai
     
  2. royinidaho

    royinidaho Writers Guild

    Messages:
    8,853
    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2004
    I just had a custom rifle built on a REM 721 Repeater and did a REM 700 myself, both repeaters converted to single shot.

    For hunting accuracy I doubt that any accuracy difference will be notices. The limitations for a repeater come mostly from magazine considerations when can restrict over all cartridge length which was the reason I went the single shot route.

    For hunting its always nice to have a second or third shot with little or no hassle.

    Regarding mounts, I've used two piece and solid mounts and haven't noticed any difference in "hunting" accuracy. Having said that both of these rifles out shoot any of the REM 40X single shot benchrest rifles I've ever had. They even out shoot a Hart sleeved Hart barreled 222 that wasn't actually a bench rifle but was converted into one.

    You may wish to consider contacting several of the smiths on this board for some considerations.

    It sounds like you have a good start.....
     

  3. Ballistic64

    Ballistic64 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    669
    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2004
    I wouldnt worry about the single shot vs repeater as far as strength or ridgidty go,you may actually appreciate a repeater more when a follow up shot is needed.
    I also ordered an Alpine and Timberline in the single shot configuration,more out of preference than anything.Hope the wait for the single shots isnt too much longer,its been quite a wait already. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
     
  4. Bart B

    Bart B Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,483
    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2005
    From what I've observed and done myself over the years, Win. Model 70 actions have been built into rifles that have shot the best for accuracy. Once in a while, a many-kilo-dollar benchrest single-shot action based rifle will come close to equalling what they've done.

    As long as the action/receiver behaves the same for every shot, I don't think there's any accuracy difference between a single shot or box magazine repeater bolt action. With one exception; some competition require that new cartridges be used and a 4-lug or 3-lug or 2-wide-lug single shot actions will shoot new cartridges a bit more accurate. Reloaded cases in box magazine actions don't cause problems.
     
  5. hey

    hey Member

    Messages:
    14
    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2005
    Again, thanks guys for the information, yes I'll stay with the repeater. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

    Best regards
    Yibai
     
  6. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Hi,

    And, welcome to the board!

    C'ya, John.
     
  7. paal_erik_norway

    paal_erik_norway Active Member

    Messages:
    26
    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2006
    [ QUOTE ]
    Oh by the way, my friend also suggest to use one piece mount base, but Jim thinks at moment nobody makes them, is it possible to get one custom made?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Did you find any solution for a one piece scope rail?
    Borden are making Davidson with 20moa on, but i want it in steel.....
    Someone know if anybody that will/can make them in steel?
     
  8. hey

    hey Member

    Messages:
    14
    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2005
  9. Crane

    Crane Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    300
    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2005
    So......a standard Remington 700 1 piece base will not fit the Borden Alpine action? What are the alternatives? I've got one on the way and I hope that isn't the case.
     
  10. hey

    hey Member

    Messages:
    14
    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2005
    Hi Crane,

    Borden's action is different from remington's, the borden's action is straight while in remington the back end base is lower than front end, also Jim uses 8-40 screws which is much stronger thant Remington's 6-48(??I think)
     
  11. goodgrouper

    goodgrouper Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,705
    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2004
    [ QUOTE ]
    Once in a while, a many-kilo-dollar benchrest single-shot action based rifle will come close to equalling what they've done.



    [/ QUOTE ]


    Equaling?! At the last benchrest match I was at, there was not one, I repeat, not one factory action anywhere to be found. If the holy Winchester m70 was really as sacred as you claim, I would be shooting a fleet of them and so would everyone else who's worried about top notch accuracy.

    Sure, if you're building a varmint rifle or an accurate hunting stick, a factory action will be fine but to say that it beats a finely crafted custom action all the time sounds like talk from somebody who stood in a bucket of distilled water holding a keyboard in a lightning storm!
     
  12. goodgrouper

    goodgrouper Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,705
    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2004
    As for your question about repeaters and single shots, Jerry Stiller has an answer for you. He is the maker of the Predator, Viper, Cobra, etc. actions which are on all the actual (not made up) competitive firing lines all over the world.

    To determine the answer to this, you have to test with a 6ppc to get the best pure results because it is the most accurate cartridge in the world to date. Jerry took an action and cut his famous "drop port" into the bottom of his single shot actions to see if it was faster with extraction. Once he made the hole big enough for the ppc and br, he increased the hole size to see if it would be as stiff or stiff enough to shoot as well and by golly, it started getting too much flex and was not as accurate as his smaller hole and solid bottom actions.

    Now, for varmints or big game or just informal target shooting, the repeater has no noticeable reduction in accuracy. And maybe even in 1000 yard br it is hard to notice, but in 100 yard br-where you could lose by .001" of an inch, the solid bottom action or versions thereof are the undisputed king.
     
  13. hey

    hey Member

    Messages:
    14
    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2005
    Thanks GG, that's very helpful information. The rifle will be definitely a field gun, to be able to shoot 1000 yard will be nice but it's bit impracticable here in New Zealand, just think how long I have to walk /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

    Thanks
    Yibai
     
  14. Bart B

    Bart B Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,483
    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2005
    [ QUOTE ]
    As for your question about repeaters and single shots, Jerry Stiller has an answer for you. He is the maker of the Predator, Viper, Cobra, etc. actions which are on all the actual (not made up) competitive firing lines all over the world.

    To determine the answer to this, you have to test with a 6ppc to get the best pure results because it is the most accurate cartridge in the world to date.

    [/ QUOTE ]If the 6PPC's the most accurate cartridge and the Predator, Viper, Cobra, etc. actions are of the same ilk, how come a .308 Win. fired from a Winchester 70 action based rifle has shot smaller 10-shot groups at 600 yards than anything else?

    If one's concerned about .001-inch accuracy changes at 100 yards, they'll spin all their bullets at 30 to 40 thousand RPM with a special tool checking them for balance then use only the perfectly balanced ones. This has been done before with incredible results. But you'll be lucky to get more than a dozen perfectly balanced bullets out of a box of a hundred.