Shooting a 223 to a Mile Accurately By Jerry Teo

[Mysticplayer]

Eaglet, thanks for posting the videos. Yep, that us blasting away. There was a nice 50BMG right beside us shaking the ground and camera. Quite the boomer.

In the picture of my shooting prone, you can see a clear batch on the faraway hillside just above the band of trees. My aiming spot is just below the ridgeline, under the 'double' trees. Under the letter 'i' in manning the camera.

Mike, glad that you and your wife could make it to the BCRA shoot on the long weekend. Wish I could have made it. Lots of great shooting in typical west coast weather.

Like you, I see alot of potential for the 223 especially at shorter distances. The big short fall is I have yet to be able to hot rod the case without serious loss of accuracy. With Varget, I am just compressing the load using 80gr Amax/Bergers set for my rifle mag. Throated longer might help.

Have shot H4350 to superb accuracy but very slow. Not sure what powder you could use to get things faster.

For this project and shorter distance F class, no matter but that extra 100fps is nice when going to 1000yds. Both bullets were very driveable and vertical was not an issue.

I am glad that you have all enjoyed this article. I really enjoyed the experiment and am thrilled at how much better the results ended up.

I took a walk to see that rock and from the marks on it, the bullets were landing in a group about 8" wide X 3" high. There were divots big enough to know that the bullet still has some oomph.

I full expect this bullet to be PD lethal at that range. Anyone living in varmint country want to try????

Jerry

 

[goodgrouper]

So, we are to believe the rifle being shot in the video is a .223? I guess I can buy that but would have liked to see the camera pan down onto the shooter and rifle then pan out to the target so we know for sure. The real tuff one to swallow is the .076" group at 200 yards. Given it's only a three shot group but considering you get an official screamer patch for any 5 shot group under .250" at 200 yards, this group would have stayed on par to beat the world record? Gulp. ANd it was written on the target .076" but in the text it shrunk even more to a .056"?? I wish my groups did that!

 

[Len Backus]

I have to get us some cute little green "envy" icons to use in threads like this one.

 

[Mysticplayer]

GG, if you do the math on the target, you will quickly see that 0.056" is the actual measurement.

No I am not saying this is consistent accuracy but one super group done in testing. As I mentioned in the text, this barrel was more a 1/4 to 1/3min type shooter at 200yds. The Bergers definitely averaged smaller groups then the Amax.

As to whether you believe that I shot a 223 or even shot at all, that's entirely up to you. And no, I am not going to get 30 afterdavits signed (number of shooters that witness the shooting) to appease concerned readers like yourself...

Jerry

 

[goodgrouper]

GG, if you do the math on the target, you will quickly see that 0.056" is the actual measurement.

No I am not saying this is consistent accuracy but one super group done in testing. As I mentioned in the text, this barrel was more a 1/4 to 1/3min type shooter at 200yds. The Bergers definitely averaged smaller groups then the Amax.

As to whether you believe that I shot a 223 or even shot at all, that's entirely up to you. And no, I am not going to get 30 afterdavits signed (number of shooters that witness the shooting) to appease concerned readers like yourself...

Jerry

One super group is right! The smallest 5 shot 100 yard group I've ever fired was a .049 from a full custom 6ppc using 5 windflags and taking 7 minutes to complete and fired from a concrete bench. You used a Stevens semi-custom .223, no windflags, and fired a group just slightly larger than that (3 shots of course) at 200 yards and you admitted it was from a rickety, wobbly bench? I think God would have hard a time beating your group! Am I envious, yes! You need to sign up for a few benchrest matches and secure your name in the Hall of Fame!

I can believe the lobbing of a bullet at one mile from your .223. I have been known to far exceed the limits of my own rifles a time or ten. But others who you have had a hard time convincing might have been more convinced had the video offered any proof. That was all I was trying to say. Next time, have the camera man pan down and show the gun and shooter real time and it will make for a more convincing video.

These were just my thoughts. No malice intended. I'm just a pessimistic arse sometimes.

 

[Mysticplayer]

My 200yd testing is done off concrete benches with a few wind flags at my range. Then I move to my LR site.

Shoot prone now both to practise for my F class matches and to get away from my wobbly benches. The Ground is a whole lot more stable. If you look at the pics in the orig article, you will see that I was shooting prone during the 1 mile video.

I have had wonderful success with these Stevens rifles using quality barrels. Yes, I have shot a number of groups that would be considered screamers but that is with rifles that don't conform to any BR classes.

Nor shot under match conditions - which is how most BR shooters define true performance. So take it or leave it.... no matter.

Considering what can be done to 'shop' any image/video, there is nothing you can say or show to ensure that the info has not been doctored.

So, you either believe in what the author is saying or you don't. As I said, this video was shot during a fun match with over 30 shooters. You can see some of the trucks and shooters during the opening part of the video.

Jerry

 

[Eaglet]

I have to get us some cute little green "envy" icons to use in threads like this one.

You mean... Like this...

this might work...

 

[Len Backus]

ge:ge:ge:

Wish I could shoot like that.

 

[goodgrouper]

My 200yd testing is done off concrete benches with a few wind flags at my range. Then I move to my LR site.

Shoot prone now both to practise for my F class matches and to get away from my wobbly benches. The Ground is a whole lot more stable. If you look at the pics in the orig article, you will see that I was shooting prone during the 1 mile video.

I have had wonderful success with these Stevens rifles using quality barrels. Yes, I have shot a number of groups that would be considered screamers but that is with rifles that don't conform to any BR classes.

Nor shot under match conditions - which is how most BR shooters define true performance. So take it or leave it.... no matter.
Jerry

Ok Jerry. That is a fair and well stated response. I thought I was going to get a "my gun does groups like that all day long" kind of response and I was preparing for the whiplash of my BS flag going up as fast as it could. But you admitted it was kind of a fluke type of happening and I can agree.

 

[Nomad]

Great shooting and thanks for the article great reading....

 

[Mysticplayer]

Len, it is all in the rifle set up. Once the load/rifle is proven to be accurate with no vertical or fliers, you just need to shoot and observe what it does relative to conditions.

A 'driveable' rig is easy to figure out. Easy to adjust for.

What I find with many situations is the rifle shoots a few smoking groups. That becomes the accepted norm. Go further and all the gremlins start to pop up dissappointing the shooter.

Been there - maybe write another article.

I am honest with what my rifle can and cannot do. Some barrels shoot. Others don't. Sometimes you need to go through a few pipes before you find one that is accurate. This is pipe Number 3 from this manufacturer but the first of the super match line. The other two were from a lesser grade and boy, did it show.

Sticking to a top line maker sure helps reduce the number of installs. But does not guarantee success as I am painfully finding out right now. $$$$$ Ouch.

Unless there is something grossly wrong during the shot, we have to count ALL shots. Especially, those flyers. Best 4 out of 5 doesn't cut it. It's that flyer that will definitely nip you in the field.

It's the average of your LARGEST groups that determines the accuracy of your rifle. Not your smallest

I can honestly say that this rifle is EASY to shoot as shown by the other shooters who did what I did and had never shot that rifle before. Lionel hit the sub MOA rock at 1 mile on his first shot - the BUM!. They trusted that whatever adjustment I told them to make, the rifle delivered.

Need 8" of windage, aim over 8", HIT. None of this a little high, a little low, a smidge left then right. Chasing the target around like it is a scared rabbit.

If the target is sized for the accuracy of the rifle, the bullets should land on target 100% of the time when you figure out what the conditions are doing - REGARDLESS OF DISTANCE (unless your bullet starts to tumble).

Otherwise, your accuracy is not what you had expected.

Pity you aren't closer, cause I would love to take you out and put you on a 1 mile rock.

It is way too much fun and you can watch your own trace right to the target. Big reason most of my boomers have been sold off. Just don't see the point for busting rocks.

YMMV
Jerry

 

[SpaceGoD]

So is there something innately different about specific bullets and calibers that let them travel well subsonically? I ask out of curiousity because I have always heard they start to wobble if they are not supersonic. I know lost river filed a patent to increase the gyroscopic stability of their 408 round but your article seems to imply that other bullets exhibit this without the explicit goal of shooting a 223 to a mile. Would it be logical to think that with the proper setup that you could launch a 338 to 2 miles?

 

[Mysticplayer]

As I said in my article, I am only refering to those with far more engineering skills and tools to monitor this situation. Their conclusion is that a bullet does not slam into anything when it goes subsonic and that spin stability as offered by the barrel INCREASES as the velocity decreases.

What does happen is the aerodynamic ballance of a bullet changes. This can make some bullet designs unstable. If that occurs, there is nothing you can do to change this.

So, the only way I know is to launch a bullet at the horizon and see what happens. If the bullet makes it subsonic by a comfy margin, it will stay stable until it hits the ground.

If you could dope the wind and have enough elevation, the 80gr Amax could go 2 miles!

A bullets limiting factor will be drag and angle of fire. At some point, aiming it higher makes it fall shorter. I think this happens above 43deg above level.

So all projectiles will have a physical limit to how far they can be shot on level ground relative to muzzle velocity.

A 300gr 338 can go 2 miles IF it stays stable. I have seen these bullets get to a mile very impressively and I think they are subsonic at that range. That would mean they can go much further if you have enough up.

I was shooting a 139gr 6.5mm Lapua Scenar no problem at 2400yds. Ran out of up to go further but have no doubt that going to 3000yds is plausible. You just need so much up that it becomes impractical.

Jerry

 

[SpaceGoD]

Thanks for the reply, it's really an amazing article. I'm sure it's encouraged a lot of us to go out and experiment instead of taking conventional wisdom for granted.