Problems with 300wsm groups

Discussion in 'Long Range Hunting & Shooting' started by Peterbilt, Mar 1, 2011.

  1. Peterbilt

    Peterbilt New Member

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    I have been shooting my Savage 12 LPV 300wsm for the past several weeks trying to see if I could consistently shoot 800-1000 yards without spending several thousand on a custom rifle. my shooting had improved and so have my loads but I am having a problem putting each group in the same spot. I am using winchester brass weighed trimmed and turned neck sized with 67.7 gr N560 210 vld's and cci mag primer. It shoots 6-8 in at 813yds sometimes a bit better but after a four shot group and check Target I sit down and shoot another group and it may be ten inches left and a bit high ..... or low or right... u get the point. Thought it was just me so I had a friend bring his rifle yesterday and shoot and almost the same results! He is shooting same gun but a vortex scope instead any thoughts? Wind was very light ... temp mat have changed some but not much I'm guessing I'm missing something major but I'm lost at this point, I've home thru so many different loads, seating depths, bullets, charges.... etc I did notice my chrono was 2991...2992...2989..2978...then dropped 30 to 40 fps on the next four or so and I don't know why they were all loaded exactly the same.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2011
  2. long450

    long450 Well-Known Member

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    There is a reason people pay $3,000 for a rifle and $2,000 for a good scope. It is not just for show!
    You may be able to get there with what you have, but it will take more time and effort. Sure, every now and again someone will buy a factory rifle that can shoot very close to a custom one, but that process is not consistantly repeatable from any factory.
     

  3. bigngreen

    bigngreen Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like you have some stress some where that is causing a POI shift between strings. Is the action bedded and stress free as well as the mounts for the optic?
     
  4. Browninglover1

    Browninglover1 Well-Known Member

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    I had a similar problem with my 22-250 at 400 yards and couldn't for the life of me figure it out because I had set my parallex to 400 yards and everything else I could think of. But then somebody at the range told me just because the adjustable objective said 400 yards didn't mean it was correct. So I set my gun on the sand bags and moved my head up and down and side to side and sure enough the cross hairs were moving almost 4 inches in any direction. So I played around with the AO and found where the cross hairs wouldn't move around the target when my eye was in a different location and immediately my groups started landing where they were supposed to. I felt like an idiot for not having tried it before and whole heartedly thanked the guy that saved me from throwing my gun in the garbage hahaha

    Maybe you've already checked into that but if your parallex isn't set right then your groups could easily be off by that much because of how you set up behind the rifle a little differently for each group. If you've already checked that and your parallex is fine that it probably is a bedding issue like bigngreen stated. Good luck figuring it out!!!
     
  5. liltank

    liltank Well-Known Member

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    I own the exact same rifle and consistency has been consistent. One thing I did do to make it that much better was to have it bedded. Consistency seemed to increase noticeably. It now sets in a B&C stock w/ aluminum bedding. The factory stock is good though.

    Tank
     
  6. 4xforfun

    4xforfun Well-Known Member

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    If I am reading your post right, your friend brought his gun along and got the same results......does this mean that you both shot a group in one place, and the next groups with each gun was off, but BOTH off in the same direction?

    If that is the case it is the conditions, plain and simple. What are you using for wind flags....how many, where are they placed????

    As far as your chrono, if the light changes a bit, and you are not using a good chrono, or are not using IR screnes, a 40 fps change is common (at least from what I have seen).

    Keep plugin away........

    It's fun, isn't it??!!!!! :D
     
  7. Peterbilt

    Peterbilt New Member

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    Yes, my friend has the exact same gun and the results were similar.... not exact. If I remember the second groups we shot both went high left but mine was further left. I know a different stock or bedding is going to be necessary but I wanted to see what we could get bone stock first. So far I've only invested 1300 in the gun, scope, and mounts so ive got more to work with. Everyone's input is appreciated and yes we are having fun! That's all were doing this for :)
     
  8. rscott5028

    rscott5028 Well-Known Member

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    If the friend's groups shifted in the same direction, the conditions changed like 4xforfun stated. This is why many F-Class shooters try to get their 20 shot string off in short order once they get dialed in.

    Wind, Sun, Temp/Pressure

    Other than a Barret BORS system, I don't think a custom rifle solves any of those issues. And, it has it's limitations also.

    An umbrella over the chrony and keeping your ammo at a relatively constant temp might help eliminate a couple of variables.

    Wind can be deceptive including up/down drafts around trees/obstacles and it can be very deceptive shooting across hills/ravenes as compared to flat ground.

    -- richard
     
  9. elkaholic

    elkaholic Well-Known Member

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    +1 this definitely sounds like an environmental issue.....Rich
     
  10. Peterbilt

    Peterbilt New Member

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    I haven't shot more than 4 shot groups at a time because I didn't want barrel heat to be an issue. The barrel has barely ever felt warm .... northern Iowa this time of year is chilly how many shots do you dare shoot for a group?
     
  11. rscott5028

    rscott5028 Well-Known Member

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    Each rifle is different. Heavier and premium custom barrels tend to be less particular about cooling. A good, stress releived barrel doesn't much care about a lot of cooling time (doesn't even have to be a heavy barrel) although you can certainly abuse one.

    Heat can induce a couple of things. One is a simple POI shift which remains constant once the barrel is fouled and up to temp. The other is groups opening up.

    3, 4, or 5 shots should be enough to tell how you are grouping. Whatever pace you're shooting at, if you have a sub-MOA group, but the group shifted in a different direction, then you'll want to account for why that occured.

    wind
    sun
    mirage
    shooter
    shooting position/rest
    loose scope base
    poor scope tracking
    paralax
    barrel
    ammo

    The list goes on.

    -- richard
     
  12. dkhunt14

    dkhunt14 Well-Known Member

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    Most of the people shooting the WSM at 1000 yards are shooting with H4350 powder with Berger 210 VLDS about 10 thous, in the rifling. and velocities are in the 2800 to 2850 bracket. These are 30 inch custom barrels and they shoot very well. The WSM is a very accurate case and they are really winning. I broke the heavy gun World record with 10 shots in 2.815" at 1000 yards. Some of the Savage guns are shooting real well. Matt
     
  13. liltank

    liltank Well-Known Member

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    So your the one. Congratulations on your record. My cousin was there when you got it. He wasn't competing, but just watching. I tried many different loads and all of mine were over pressured. That was the known load of 62-63 grains of H4350. The pressure was too high for my rifle.

    Tank
     
  14. elkaholic

    elkaholic Well-Known Member

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    Congrats Matt! I heard about that record and could barely believe it!........Rich