Plastic tipped bullets. Soldering iron test. ELDX is indeed improved...

[Deleted member 46119]

True, but my thoughts were that the heat could transfer from the bullet to the tip.

You got me started on the heat soaking problem. Barrel friction will heat the jacket. Air friction will keep the temperature up. Eventually the heat will migrate to adjoining materials.

So...

I too am now in the "not just air friction" camp.

If barrel friction, powder heat and air friction have the bullet body exiting the barrel at +400 degrees, the heat soak and air only have to go another 35 degrees to effect the tip.

There are so many inputs...

 

[Pdvdh]

Apply the heat to the butt-end of a plastic tip with your soldering iron and then time how long it takes to increase the temperature of leading edge of the plastic tip until you can deform the frontal face of the plastic tip. Then compare that length of time to the time of flight of the bullet for your very longest shots on game.

All the other sources of heat transfer by conduction from the body of the bullet to the frontal face of the plastic tips play no role on the BC degradation of the former plastic tips when fired at high MV.

 

[just country]

morning back in the 1950's Remington came out with a bronze tip bullet.

I have some.

The reason that Remington quit making the bullets was published that the cost

of production. these bullets were flat base. the ogive is moderate in length. the

bullets r not streamline next to a berger vld, barnes LRX or nosler ab. the bullets

were very accurate.

I have .277-130gr

.308-180gr
the manufactures do not put the BC of the bullets on the boxes.lightbulb

 

[KYpatriot]

If the plastic tip were replaced by one made of tungsten I wonder how much the BC would go up. Very expensive though.

 

[gohring3006]

In this, I believe Michael Eichele and Steve Hornady.

I run 3 A-Max, 140grn .264, 208grn .308 and 285grn .338.

However, I don't run any of these faster than 2850fps which seems to be the cut off point for melting tips past 600 yards.

The 300 RUM can run the 208s from under 2800 to over 3200.

I could do a test: Slow and fast at 300 yards. Slow and fast at 1000 yards.

If the MOA changes significantly and/or the BC doesn't match at 1000 yards.

I'm tagging in Fred, I'm interested in your results...

 

[Swamplord]

the manufactures do not put the BC of the bullets on the boxes.lightbulb

some do ..........

 

[Deleted member 46119]

I'm tagging in Fred, I'm interested in your results...

Now it's just a matter of time to get er done.

 

[Deleted member 46119]

And waiting for the 208 ELD to be in stock. Apples to apples and all that.

 

[Michael Eichele]

Apply the heat to the butt-end of a plastic tip with your soldering iron and then time how long it takes to increase the temperature of leading edge of the plastic tip until you can deform the frontal face of the plastic tip. Then compare that length of time to the time of flight of the bullet for your very longest shots on game.

All the other sources of heat transfer by conduction from the body of the bullet to the frontal face of the plastic tips play no role on the BC degradation of the former plastic tips when fired at high MV.

Heating the base with a soldering iron wouldn't be an apples to apples comparison between heating the tip with an iron and firing the whole bullet through a barrel. All my test did was show how well a tip did or did not hold up to a hot object. Some fared better than others.

For you to prove or me to prove whether or not firing in and of itself can affect the tip would be very difficult to prove. Your statement is very presumptuous. I'll continue to have an open mind about the matter. I'm not convinced either way.

In all reality, I don't care. IF their new line performs as advertised, I don't really care how they made it happen.

 

[Michael Eichele]

And waiting for the 208 ELD to be in stock. Apples to apples and all that.

Me too. If the dimensions are the same between the 208 amax and 208 ELDM, and if the ELDM drops less, it would be pretty conclusive.

 

[just country]

swamplord, the bullet boxes r from the 1950's there was no BC posted on the bullet

boxes. these bullets were made by Remington. Remington made these bullets

for .277 .308 caliber. I never saw any others.

 

[Pdvdh]

For you to prove or me to prove whether or not firing in and of itself can affect the tip would be very difficult to prove. Your statement is very presumptuous.

I agree your test only demonstrated a higher melting temperature of the new plastic tips compared to the old plastic tips. Other than that, nothing.

I explained why the leading surface of the tips wouldn't degrade due to conduction of heat that originates in the core of the bullet during the bullets' short times of flight. Plastic doesn't conduct heat quickly enough. Correct versus presumptuous? I'm sure about the first. You express certainty of the second.

To the extent any individual or entity had/has any cause to prove anything, I give you Hornady, the company discovering and reporting this new finding. I found zero talk about heat from the base or the core of the bullet conducting forward to degrade their old plastic tips. So discard everything I've stated. Hornady ONLY focused on heat generated on the leading surface of their plastic tips. Are they also presumptuous?

 

[Michael Eichele]

I agree your test only demonstrated a higher melting temperature of the new plastic tips compared to the old plastic tips. Other than that, nothing.

I explained why the leading surface of the tips wouldn't degrade due to conduction of heat that originates in the core of the bullet during the bullets' short times of flight. Plastic doesn't conduct heat quickly enough. Correct versus presumptuous? I'm sure about the first. You express certainty of the second.

To the extent any individual or entity had/has any cause to prove anything, I give you Hornady, the company discovering and reporting this new finding. I found zero talk about heat from the base or the core of the bullet conducting forward to degrade their old plastic tips. So discard everything I've stated. Hornady ONLY focused on heat generated on the leading surface of their plastic tips. Are they also presumptuous?

I think one would be a fool to have a completely closed mind on the matter. Like Aaron said, it wasn't long ago when we knew the world was flat. But if you want to take every theory and study as 100% gospel, don't let me stop you. I'll always take heat and flame to have an open mind and ask about all the potential contributing factors. Right or wrong, at least I have the balls to do that.

I think if you follow the link below, there is at least some evidence that the firing process can possibly play a role. Notice the temp of the tip "just out of the muzzle". Yes the tips are a better insulator than conductor but it will still suffer with enough heat. Regardless, its difficult for anybody to prove with exacting results.

If you think that firing does the tips any favors, or doesn't at least contribute to the problem, then yes, I'd say you're presumptuous.

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f19/hornady-eld-x-bullets-161441/index7.html

 

[Michael Eichele]

You need to remember too Paul, that I never said that I thought firing was the sole cause, nor the majority of the cause. I am just having an open mind that firing could be a contributing factor. How much? As stated earlier, it's very difficult to prove. Whether I'm right or wrong doesn't really matter. If your dog in this fight just wants to argue, there are plenty of other threads worthy of arguments. This one really isn't worth it and there's really nothing to argue about.