Another Henson Aluminum tipped Bullet Test

[Lightvarmint]

Hello interested shooters,

We tested the HAT .30 caliber 180s again at closer range (160 yards) with the factory 300 win mag sendero with the 10" twist 24" barrel on a Missouri farm doe last week. Specifically, a bang-flop onto the back and a little twitch of the back legs. We donated the deer to a needy family so we got a successful close range test and helped out some folks who were in need.

The wound channel and exit were just like you get from the accubond........ Only much better flight characteristics! So, it expands on the Missouri deer just like the SC deer both at longer ranges and up close.

We will be pressure testing/developing some loads this weekend with the .338 265gr models on the 338 Lapua Improved case and then hopefully cull a few does or a mature buck (who are mowing down the food plots) before the end of the seasons in SC and Mississippi. Again, we will donate the meat to families in need.

If you have questions about the test results, email me at [email protected] as I am not able to get to the website very much this time of the year.

Contact the Bulletsmith (RG Henson) at [email protected] for bullet questions and/or orders.

Happy Thanksgiving.

Lightvarmint

 

[petenz]

Do you have any photos of the wound channel etc?

 

[Lightvarmint]

Do you have any photos of the wound channel etc?

Petenz,

Thanks for your interest. However, wound channel photos are very subjective and vary enormously depending on the impact velocity, bullet rpm, size of the animal, location of the hit, the angle that the bullet takes through the animal, whether it is only soft tissue, bone or both bone and soft tissue as well as the type of body armor that the animal is wearing and I am sure there are others that are important to other folks........ We just cannot anticipate and test for all the different scenarios or different types of material that are important to every shooter.

For instance some folk found it important to find the expansion characteristics of the bullet in sand and I know of no animal that has "sandy" media in the chest cavity or in the soft tissue. However, maybe they were mason deer carrying sand bags to mix mortor or concrete.

Other "experts" thought that the animals would be carring phone books taped together out in the woods or on the praries to locate numbers for their cell phones and the penetration through the dry phone books were important to them.

Then we had the carpenter deer that were toting lumber around to build structures and the bullet penetration through the lumber were important to those testers.

Like me, most shooters don't shoot the rare species of deer such as the sandbox deer, phone book deer or even the ultra rare carpenter deer. Honestly, I only shoot them when they are not wearing body armor or carrying other material on them that could cause poor performance and that is why we test on the live aniimals with blood pressure present only. We do not try to correlate non-living matierial to living material. We were going to test in the gelatin blocks but since I had to cull some does on the club and on a farm, we decided that it was much more of a VALID test to use these animals. All were bang-flops with the deer only reacting as I previously described above.

Finally, no two bullet strikes will be the same unless it is in the same type of expansion media at the same distance (like one of the gel blocks or tubes). Additionally, you can't please all folks during test sessions or even some folks as you will find those that are interested in the shoulder areas while some are interested in the expansion of the soft tissue. You will even find those that will go beyond the outer limits of reality and are only interested in casting dispersions and announcing that the bullets are not working for their intended purpose. You cannot cannot please these types of zealots and Mr Henson is really only interested in selling the bullets to legitimate shooters that will give them a fair and honest shake under realistic conditions.

So, if you have a gel block and are interested I will send you a few to test in the expansion media if you will test them at full velocity for the grain weight of the bullet.

In short, the bullets work on game animals and on competition targets (specifically, they do not work on lumber, sand or phone books) and if you buy them and you don't like them, you can return them for a refund. I don't think ANY other bullet company in existence will make that offer. So, in short, you really have nothing to lose since you can return them if they do not work for you. Sort of like the Cabelas customer satisfaction guarantee.

Happy Thanksgiving.

Lightvarmint

 

[eddybo]

But do you have any photos?

 

[tillroot1]

Petenz,

Thanks for your interest. However, wound channel photos are very subjective and vary enormously depending on the impact velocity, bullet rpm, size of the animal, location of the hit, the angle that the bullet takes through the animal, whether it is only soft tissue, bone or both bone and soft tissue as well as the type of body armor that the animal is wearing and I am sure there are others that are important to other folks........ We just cannot anticipate and test for all the different scenarios or different types of material that are important to every shooter.

For instance some folk found it important to find the expansion characteristics of the bullet in sand and I know of no animal that has "sandy" media in the chest cavity or in the soft tissue. However, maybe they were mason deer carrying sand bags to mix mortor or concrete.

Other "experts" thought that the animals would be carring phone books taped together out in the woods or on the praries to locate numbers for their cell phones and the penetration through the dry phone books were important to them.

Then we had the carpenter deer that were toting lumber around to build structures and the bullet penetration through the lumber were important to those testers.

Like me, most shooters don't shoot the rare species of deer such as the sandbox deer, phone book deer or even the ultra rare carpenter deer. Honestly, I only shoot them when they are not wearing body armor or carrying other material on them that could cause poor performance and that is why we test on the live aniimals with blood pressure present only. We do not try to correlate non-living matierial to living material. We were going to test in the gelatin blocks but since I had to cull some does on the club and on a farm, we decided that it was much more of a VALID test to use these animals. All were bang-flops with the deer only reacting as I previously described above.

Finally, no two bullet strikes will be the same unless it is in the same type of expansion media at the same distance (like one of the gel blocks or tubes). Additionally, you can't please all folks during test sessions or even some folks as you will find those that are interested in the shoulder areas while some are interested in the expansion of the soft tissue. You will even find those that will go beyond the outer limits of reality and are only interested in casting dispersions and announcing that the bullets are not working for their intended purpose. You cannot cannot please these types of zealots and Mr Henson is really only interested in selling the bullets to legitimate shooters that will give them a fair and honest shake under realistic conditions.

So, if you have a gel block and are interested I will send you a few to test in the expansion media if you will test them at full velocity for the grain weight of the bullet.

In short, the bullets work on game animals and on competition targets (specifically, they do not work on lumber, sand or phone books) and if you buy them and you don't like them, you can return them for a refund. I don't think ANY other bullet company in existence will make that offer. So, in short, you really have nothing to lose since you can return them if they do not work for you. Sort of like the Cabelas customer satisfaction guarantee.

Happy Thanksgiving.

Lightvarmint

seeing as how I am on the ignore list, this should not get a reply, but here goes.
All the testing that I saw done here were against proven bullets by proven over time bullet makers, pictures came with the tests good and bad. Tests by consumers not salesmen touting thier product. You came back here again throwing more stones and blowing smoke, but takers will be few as you have already proven yourself here. All that was asked above was a picture, where did you go with that question? keep up the good salesmanship!
Ron Tilley

 

[goodgrouper]

Petenz,

Thanks for your interest. However, wound channel photos are very subjective and vary enormously depending on the impact velocity, bullet rpm, size of the animal, location of the hit, the angle that the bullet takes through the animal, whether it is only soft tissue, bone or both bone and soft tissue as well as the type of body armor that the animal is wearing and I am sure there are others that are important to other folks........ We just cannot anticipate and test for all the different scenarios or different types of material that are important to every shooter.

For instance some folk found it important to find the expansion characteristics of the bullet in sand and I know of no animal that has "sandy" media in the chest cavity or in the soft tissue. However, maybe they were mason deer carrying sand bags to mix mortor or concrete.

Other "experts" thought that the animals would be carring phone books taped together out in the woods or on the praries to locate numbers for their cell phones and the penetration through the dry phone books were important to them.

Then we had the carpenter deer that were toting lumber around to build structures and the bullet penetration through the lumber were important to those testers.

Like me, most shooters don't shoot the rare species of deer such as the sandbox deer, phone book deer or even the ultra rare carpenter deer. Honestly, I only shoot them when they are not wearing body armor or carrying other material on them that could cause poor performance and that is why we test on the live aniimals with blood pressure present only. We do not try to correlate non-living matierial to living material. We were going to test in the gelatin blocks but since I had to cull some does on the club and on a farm, we decided that it was much more of a VALID test to use these animals. All were bang-flops with the deer only reacting as I previously described above.

Finally, no two bullet strikes will be the same unless it is in the same type of expansion media at the same distance (like one of the gel blocks or tubes). Additionally, you can't please all folks during test sessions or even some folks as you will find those that are interested in the shoulder areas while some are interested in the expansion of the soft tissue. You will even find those that will go beyond the outer limits of reality and are only interested in casting dispersions and announcing that the bullets are not working for their intended purpose. You cannot cannot please these types of zealots and Mr Henson is really only interested in selling the bullets to legitimate shooters that will give them a fair and honest shake under realistic conditions.

So, if you have a gel block and are interested I will send you a few to test in the expansion media if you will test them at full velocity for the grain weight of the bullet.

In short, the bullets work on game animals and on competition targets (specifically, they do not work on lumber, sand or phone books) and if you buy them and you don't like them, you can return them for a refund. I don't think ANY other bullet company in existence will make that offer. So, in short, you really have nothing to lose since you can return them if they do not work for you. Sort of like the Cabelas customer satisfaction guarantee.

Happy Thanksgiving.

Lightvarmint

Petenz,

I think that whole big blah blah blah session means "nope". Honestly, have you ever heard more self justification in your life? This guy's starting to sound like Hillary more and more. "We can't produce any provable, plausible evidence so we'll just bend the facts and hide them to prove our own meaningless point and hope that the educated people don't notice".

LV, you really need to stop for your own good, or at least for the good of the mysterious Mr Henson! Seriously, just give us the results in real evidence and let people draw their own conclusions. Your censuring of what is told but not shown speaks volumes in the negative for your products! It's so simple. What's the problem?

 

[Marine sniper]

I just loaded some of the HAT 180's for my 300 Weatherby, I will be going to the range on Thursday. I plan on a full run down of the bullets after I get back form the range, pics, thoughts, etc. If I can get them to shoot I will do a lot of terminal ballistic testing also....

Lightvarmit: I really don't know what to think about you. You seem to know a lot about ballistics and have a passion for these bullets, but if I ever come up with a product I want to sell you would be the last guy I would want in charge of marketing.

 

[Augustus]

Lightvarmit, thanks for the update. As far as Im concerned you need not post pics of an animal that is obviously deceased, nor am I concerned about your social skills; however I am interested in your line of 338 and 375 projos. I intend to try some soon. Frankly as far as Im concerned I will take a guy like you who speaks his mind over a smiling jack salesman anyday. Now for the disclaimer, I dont have a dog in this hunt and dont know the boys working on these bullets from Adam.

 

[goodgrouper]

I just loaded some of the HAT 180's for my 300 Weatherby, I will be going to the range on Thursday. I plan on a full run down of the bullets after I get back form the range, pics, thoughts, etc. If I can get them to shoot I will do a lot of terminal ballistic testing also....

.

You'd better be careful MS. If you don't get results that please these guys, you know what's coming! But I would be interested in any info you can share but we might have to do it by private message so as to not put a ripple in the pond.

Augustus,
I really don't have a dog in this fight either. The bullets I tested (in my test that has strangely worked for every other bullet but mysteriously can't work for HAT's) aren't even the ones being produced anymore and the ones that are being produced are being represented here so badly that I wouldn't touch them with a ten foot pole. As far as I'm concerned, until SOMEONE can prove otherwise, they aren't a choice. If by some miracle, LV does ever produce any believable results and his new bullets work, I'll be the first to congratulate him. But it ain't happened yet.......

 

[Forester]

You'd better be careful MS. If you don't get results that please these guys, you know what's coming! But I would be interested in any info you can share but we might have to do it by private message so as to not put a ripple in the pond.

Augustus,
I really don't have a dog in this fight either. The bullets I tested (in my test that has strangely worked for every other bullet but mysteriously can't work for HAT's) aren't even the ones being produced anymore and the ones that are being produced are being represented here so badly that I wouldn't touch them with a ten foot pole. As far as I'm concerned, until SOMEONE can prove otherwise, they aren't a choice. If by some miracle, LV does ever produce any believable results and his new bullets work, I'll be the first to congratulate him. But it ain't happened yet.......

No, please do post them publicly, I think a lot of people are interested in these bullets if they would actually work. And if they don't then it will be entertaining to watch LV's head explode some more

 

[ATH]

Geez, I was getting interested until the rambling "I don't want to answer you" reply to a very simple question. Darn.

You dismiss all the tests of others, then we are supposed to believe your OWN feedback on your OWN bullets based on the results of what, 2 shot deer? Riiiiight. I don't develop my opinion on much of anything based on 2 sample points.

 

[Lightvarmint]

Geez, I was getting interested until the rambling "I don't want to answer you" reply to a very simple question. Darn.

You dismiss all the tests of others, then we are supposed to believe your OWN feedback on your OWN bullets based on the results of what, 2 shot deer? Riiiiight. I don't develop my opinion on much of anything based on 2 sample points.

ATH,

Remember, the tests that were done previously in non-living material, were done with the .338 265s and/or 280s. The bullets I have reported on are the .308 180s for use in factory guns with 10" twist barrels and these are not the same as what others are referring to (338 265s and/or 280s). To be truly objective and unbiased, why not wait to cast judegement and dispersions until we actually have conflicting test results of that with the sand, phone book, and wood tests. I think that it is premature, incorrect, unproffessional and basically juvenile to question my results on the 180 .30 caliber bullets when no one else has tested them at all in live animals or even in any material. Until we start collecting live animals with the 265s in the next few weeks we actually do not have any conflicting test results with the sand, wood and phone books. Jumping the gun actually reveals that some of the dissenters are more interested in saving their bruised egos than being objective, realistic and honest.

These are not my bullets and I am not the salesman, I am only the tester. I have zero investment other than barrel life, time, primers, powder, cases and fuel. Nor, am I recieving any compensation. As a matter of fact, I have never even met the bullet maker personally but we have logged hundreds of hours on the phone. Nor have I met the Hornadays, Sierras, Speers, Noslers, Barnes, Swifts etc, ect. But, I have tested their products for myself. This product will sell itself to those who are truly interested and according to Mr Henson, competent enough to use them by following the supplied instructions/recommendations.

When the opportunities are presented for testing on live game I do it. If we were trying to mislead anyone, it sure would not be by shooting one or two animals per month. Remember, we are not throwing out multiple event results on the same day or even the same week or month or even from the same state. However, I will continue to post the live game results for those who are interested as they occur. I will never post photos of wound channels or exit wounds for the exact same reason that the larger bullet companies will not do it. They do not want to fuel the anti-hunting fraternity and neither does Mr Henson and so we have decided not to even take photos and allow those who desire photos to request some bullets and shoot them into media to satisfy their questions. Furthermore, supplying photos would lead to accusations by some that they were doctored or not even shot with the bullets in question. So, since there will never be any proof in a photo of the actual bullet leaving the muzzle, entering the animal, exiting the animal or leaving the wound channel and associated exit wound(s), photos actually would not legitimately resolve everyones questions or serve to further Mr Hensons interest. Or even better, if one does do not have faith in the posted reports, why would one have faith in pictures that could have been altered or even from other projectiles. We are not being evasive, we just will not post bloody photos to fuel the potential demise of the sport of hunting.

BTW, I own the test equipment and and test facilities and both are located about 26 miles from the east coast and the bullet making equipment, tooling and all associated consumable products is located north of Atlanta Georgia in the Cartersville area. RG Henson and James McCallum are not the same person and Mr Dave Viers of Black Diamond Rifles as well as Mr Kirby Allen of Allen Precicision shooting can attest to that since they both have been shipped bullet orders or samples. Finally, I am sure if you so choose, that you can contact the ATF liscensing department and asertain who is listed on the manufacturers license as the owner of the bullet company....... And it ain't me!

Happy Thanksgiving,

Lightvarmint

 

[MontanaRifleman]

No, please do post them publicly, I think a lot of people are interested in these bullets if they would actually work....

No dog in this fight either... Yup, a lot of people are interested. Please do post the results publicly.

Also, here in MT we can shoot up to 3 Antelope and 2 or more deer a year. IMO Antelope make excellent test critters for long range shooting, because they die very easily and are shot in areas where they easily be recovered.

If some folks can get these bullets (308/180) to shoot straight and group well, I would also be willing to try them on game out of my Sako 300 WSM (11 twist) at various ranges.

 

[tillroot1]

ATH,

Remember, the tests that were done previously in non-living material, were done with the .338 265s and/or 280s. The bullets I have reported on are the .308 180s for use in factory guns with 10" twist barrels and these are not the same as what others are referring to (338 265s and/or 280s). To be truly objective and unbiased, why not wait to cast judegement and dispersions until we actually have conflicting test results of that with the sand, phone book, and wood tests. I think that it is premature, incorrect, unproffessional and basically juvenile to question my results on the 180 .30 caliber bullets when no one else has tested them at all in live animals or even in any material. Until we start collecting live animals with the 265s in the next few weeks we actually do not have any conflicting test results with the sand, wood and phone books. Jumping the gun actually reveals that some of the dissenters are more interested in saving their bruised egos than being objective, realistic and honest.

These are not my bullets and I am not the salesman, I am only the tester. I have zero investment other than barrel life, time, primers, powder, cases and fuel. Nor, am I recieving any compensation. As a matter of fact, I have never even met the bullet maker personally but we have logged hundreds of hours on the phone. Nor have I met the Hornadays, Sierras, Speers, Noslers, Barnes, Swifts etc, ect. But, I have tested their products for myself. This product will sell itself to those who are truly interested and according to Mr Henson, competent enough to use them by following the supplied instructions/recommendations.

When the opportunities are presented for testing on live game I do it. If we were trying to mislead anyone, it sure would not be by shooting one or two animals per month. Remember, we are not throwing out multiple event results on the same day or even the same week or month or even from the same state. However, I will continue to post the live game results for those who are interested as they occur. I will never post photos of wound channels or exit wounds for the exact same reason that the larger bullet companies will not do it. They do not want to fuel the anti-hunting fraternity and neither does Mr Henson and so we have decided not to even take photos and allow those who desire photos to request some bullets and shoot them into media to satisfy their questions. Furthermore, supplying photos would lead to accusations by some that they were doctored or not even shot with the bullets in question. So, since there will never be any proof in a photo of the actual bullet leaving the muzzle, entering the animal, exiting the animal or leaving the wound channel and associated exit wound(s), photos actually would not legitimately resolve everyones questions or serve to further Mr Hensons interest. Or even better, if one does do not have faith in the posted reports, why would one have faith in pictures that could have been altered or even from other projectiles. We are not being evasive, we just will not post bloody photos to fuel the potential demise of the sport of hunting.

BTW, I own the test equipment and and test facilities and both are located about 26 miles from the east coast and the bullet making equipment, tooling and all associated consumable products is located north of Atlanta Georgia in the Cartersville area. RG Henson and James McCallum are not the same person and Mr Dave Viers of Black Diamond Rifles as well as Mr Kirby Allen of Allen Precicision shooting can attest to that since they both have been shipped bullet orders or samples. Finally, I am sure if you so choose, that you can contact the ATF liscensing department and asertain who is listed on the manufacturers license as the owner of the bullet company....... And it ain't me!

Happy Thanksgiving,

Lightvarmint

You are so full of crap!!! you are only the tester? you are the one that offered me a refund on my purchase, not Mr Henson, after he personally told me the bullets would be perfect for my build. How about some customer representation from him, some interaction by him. He only has one tester? Between your post's on snipershide under a different screen name and here, nothing you say will generate faith here. As long as you try to spread BS I will be one to reply and contradict it. Count on it, EVERY time! happy testing to the king of BS'ers
Ron Tilley