I have shot them both into wet newspaper at 100 and 200 yards, the WC's held up slightly better then the VLD's, but were no where near what you would consider "controlled expansion." They both were pretty violent. They did penetrate about 12" which is pretty good, so I think the weight and SD still definately helps out with the penetration. EIther one would work wonders on a cow elk assuming no heavy bone was encountered on a close shot. The expansion at 800 yards is controversial. SOme bullets were nicely expanded, some looked like the tip was just deformed and the bullet was twisted a little bit. It was kinda weird. This was with the WC's. The bergers expanded a little better at 800, but still mixed results. My testing media was not exactly what you would call perfect either. I was shooting my targets at 800 and they were impacting wet sand.