Nosler AB Long Range No Good?

[Michael Eichele]

I just know that in my experience every rifle/barrel I have owned would shoot some bullets exceptionally well while other bullets so so and others horrible. I've been blessed to have had several rifle/barrels that were solid sub 1/2 MOA performers and one that was a solid .2 performer. All have had bullets that they would just not digest well. This is based on well I can't even remember how many barrels and rifles. Maybe 2 dozen? Maybe 18? It's a big spread I know but it's been a long time.

Again, I'm not saying you didn't get a bad box. Just saying that regardless of how good and accurate your rifle is, it is my opinion that there will be bullets that it just will not digest well at all. ABLRs or others.

 

[Pdvdh]

Innocent question. Do you have some insider's knowledge of the Nosler bullet company manufacturing and QA/QC processes?

Reason I asked is I once received a box of Nosler BT or AB bullets, and when I measured them for diameter by placing the bullet bearing surface (shank) in my caliper jaws, the only place the caliper jaw touched the bullet was at the very base where the bearing surface transitioned into the boat tail.

In order to confirm I didn't have a bad set of calipers, I tested a number of other bullets I had on hand, and the other bullets all contacted the caliper jaws more or less evenly along the length of the bearing surface. The Nosler bullets would literally spin around in the jaws, pivoting from the location of contact at the base of the bearing surface.

So I contacted Nosler and told them what I was experiencing. They asked me to send the box of bullets back to them for replacement. The bullets in the replacement box didn't display the problem. Their bearing surface diameter was more or less uniform like the other bullets in my reloading room I had tested. I don't remember what Nosler told me. Something about the bullet die may have been nearing the end of its useful life. I think the useful life had already been exceeded. I never shot any of the large-in-the-butt bullets for accuracy, so I can't say how they shot, or would have shot.

 

[Engineering101]

The light bulb is beginning to come on. Since people were saying that these ABLRs are good in slower rifles I ran some numbers. The 210 ABLRs have an advertised BC of 0.730 which I don't believe so I knocked it down to 0.630 and looked up a suitable load. You can get 2,640 fps out of a 24" barrel 30-06 with that bullet. My 30-06 has a 26 inch barrel so I should be good with that number. Running that forward to where velocity drops to 1,300 fps it turns out to be 1,585 yards with 790 ft lbs. That means a 30-06 with these bullets is now a 1,500 yard deer gun. I can leave my RUMs at home if I just put a big scope on the 06!

 

[Michael Eichele]

Phorwath, I have seen the same thing with other bullets. SMKs ring a bell but can't remember. I've always been told that this was a 'pressure ring'. Not sure exactly now what to think but I've never had any bullets that had this feature shoot bad.

E101, Now you're getting why guys like me are excited about them! By saying guys like me, I mean 308 fans or fans of other sub magnum cartridges. I'm getting 2601'sec with the 210 ABLRs in my 308 win. I've verified their BC to be .62 at the 2650-2700'sec range. At 5000' elevation in 59 degree air they'll deliver 1135'# energy with over 1500'sec impact. With a lower velocity threshold for expansion and higher BCs (higher than the average hunting bullet anyways) they have moved the 308 into legitimate 1000+ yard hunting territory. Previously never thought to be possible. At least for deer and sheep size game. Maybe at reduced velocity and the high SD and mass of the 210s, they would do good on elk at shorter ranges.? I'd try it at least once.

 

[Engineering101]

Michael

Yep, I think I get it. They are a game changer. I may have to get me some of these but... where can I buy the 210?

 

[Michael Eichele]

Michael

Yep, I think I get it. They are a game changer. I may have to get me some of these but... where can I buy the 210?

Unfortunately only a game changer for sub mags though my 300 win likes them I think they're anything but a game changer for my 300 since I can get other bullets up faster from the get go. Probably to frail anyway.

Where to get them? Lol! They're hard to find for sure.

 

[bigngreen]

I think what's killing the ALR is it seems like it would function very well as a long range bullet BUT with the BC there are other bullets that destroy it. I was going to run them in my 270 but with the BC of the Matrix 165 plus the performance on game I would actually be loosing range with the ALR. Same for shooting the 210 in my 308 vs the 215 Berger where the BC of the 215 keeps it's speed up so it ends up with a farther effective range than the ALR.

 

[Engineering101]

bigngreen

Very good point. It would be different if they meet their published BCs but we all knew that wasn't going to happen just by looking at the pics.

It sounds like what is going to kill the ABLRs for me is - you can't buy them - as others have mentioned in this thread. My store has the Bergers on the shelf but I have never not once seen a box of the 210 ABLRs on any shelf anywhere.

 

[Michael Eichele]

I think what's killing the ALR is it seems like it would function very well as a long range bullet BUT with the BC there are other bullets that destroy it. I was going to run them in my 270 but with the BC of the Matrix 165 plus the performance on game I would actually be loosing range with the ALR. Same for shooting the 210 in my 308 vs the 215 Berger where the BC of the 215 keeps it's speed up so it ends up with a farther effective range than the ALR.

I've also been super excited about the 215 in my 308. They're shooting superbly. With that in mind, at what point do you think they will cease to expand? That's my only concern. I'm excited about the ALR simply because it's pretty clear they do expand at lower velocities than most hunting bullets but I'd be ecstatic if the 215s expanded at 1450'sec.

M

 

[JMUPT]

I killed two deer this past year with the 210gr ABLR shot out of a 30-378 wby. I can't remember what the exact velocity was but I think it was somewhere around 3100 fps. Accuracy was sub 1" at 100 with pretty much the first load I tried, so I went with that since it was getting close to hunting season and time was limited. The first deer was shot at about 70yds. She was facing me and the bullet entered the neck just below the jaw it exited out the back of the neck and left a hole almost the size of a football. The second deer was shot at 240 yds and was quartering hard toward me. The bullet entered just behind the front shoulder and exited the last rib. The exit wound was about the size of a quarter. I was pleased with the performance from the bullets they seemed to act just like the regular accubonds.

 

[Pdvdh]

I've also been super excited about the 215 in my 308. They're shooting superbly. With that in mind, at what point do you think they will cease to expand? That's my only concern. I'm excited about the ALR simply because it's pretty clear they do expand at lower velocities than most hunting bullets but I'd be ecstatic if the 215s expanded at 1450'sec.

M

Yeah, that's the advantage of the ABLR over the Berger. I've not heard or read of the Bergers expanding down to 1500, let alone 1300. Now IF the Bergers would tumble every time they didn't expand, I think they'd still be lethal. But I've had one 210 VLD that didn't expand or tumble at 300 yds on a Dall ram, fired from my 300 Win Mag. So I know first hand that the non-expanders don't always tumble.

 

[Dosh]

Thought about trying the 210 ABLR in my 30/378 but they are non-existent here. I also feel Nosler must be extremely proud of them considering the price placed on them. Bergers are going for a lot less and are proven and available, which is turning off potential shooters of the ABLR. Couple the non existence on the shelves and price something has got to give, hunting season is fast upon us. ???????????

 

[JMUPT]

I don't think the price is bad at all considering that they come in 100ct boxes. They are cheaper than the regular accubonds and not to far off from the bergers. I do agree that they are hard to find, I have been able to get them from shootersproshop.com but they go quick. I know that they are running the 190gr ABLR now there have been some seconds available on shootersproshop lately.

 

[bigngreen]

I think Jeff hit an antelope at around 1600 fps and it blew a hole through it, I've dug a lot of 215's out of the 1000 yard berm which is softish dirt and with a 1500 fps impact there mushroomed back half way which not really a super test but I've shot enough bullet into it that it got me excited to see them opened that well. We'll see, just gotta line up some antelope and run them through gun)