No More Elk Hunting in Montana in 3 years

Discussion in 'Elk Hunting' started by dook, Oct 31, 2011.

  1. dook

    dook Well-Known Member

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    Just stating the obvious. Anyone who has payed attention to elk and wolf populations knows that we only have about 10% of our (pre-wolf introduction)Montana elk herd left. Wolf populations have gone through the roof and it will not take 2 years for them to kill 80% of our remaining elk.

    There are a few pockets where isolated elk won't be found by wolves and some areas surrounded by ranchers who don't take any guff from wolves. Those will not be huntable populations.

    Wolves have killed elk for fun and practice.

    http://savewesternwildlife.org/sport-killing.html
    http://mtmultipleuse.org/endangered/wolf_pics.htm

    The intrduced Canadian Grey Wolf is NOT indiginous to the lower 48 states.

    http://savewesternwildlife.org/lower-48.html in fact they have killed the last 80 remaining American (smaller) Grey Wolves as was easily predicted. That's what wolves do. They kill weaker competing packs whenever they can. USFWS knew that would happen but went ahead with the elk extermination plan anyway.
     
  2. retiredcpo

    retiredcpo Well-Known Member

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    I believe the ballance will shift back the other way but never in our life time and not to the levels it was at
    retiredcpo
     

  3. dook

    dook Well-Known Member

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    What do you think would cause the balance to shift the other way?
     
  4. retiredcpo

    retiredcpo Well-Known Member

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    Hunting I think you are going to see alot more of them getting shot
    Legal or not
    alot of people are tired of waiting for the gov to get their heads out(which may never happen)
    Idaho is up to 87 so far.
    retiredCpo
     
  5. Dr. Vette

    Dr. Vette Well-Known Member

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    Kill all the wolves not in Yellowstone and let the elk and deer numbers go back up. Even if that were to happen today I think it'd take 10 years.
     
  6. retiredcpo

    retiredcpo Well-Known Member

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    Dr.
    Thats what I saying but I think its going to take 20 yrs or more to get close to what it was
    retiredcpo
     
  7. dook

    dook Well-Known Member

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    We're not going to make a significant dent in wolf populations by hunting them. All that does is bump off the dumbest 5%. Just ask the Alaskans. They've been hunting them forever. They'll hand you two wolf tags and say "good luck, ha ha ha" knowing most hunters are unsuccessful.

    After the dumb ones are shot, hunter success numbers drop off. Wolf control by hunting is "unsustainable", to use a term environmentalists like.

    Here's a one hour movie everyone should watch. http://cryingwolfmovie.com/ This is much beter than teevee.
     
  8. dook

    dook Well-Known Member

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  9. toader

    toader Well-Known Member

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    Well well, check out the ad on this site to save the wolves - what money does!!
     
  10. Magnumitis

    Magnumitis Well-Known Member

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    I completely agree. Although hunting seasons are a step in the right direction, something more effective must consistently be done to control these things. Poison, aerial gunning... something! It will be a looong time before we have the elk numbers that we once had... and that is looking at the glass half full.
     
  11. chucknbach

    chucknbach Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, just seen the ad. I signed up to recieve news from them. Kinda changed the letter that gets sent.

    As a supporter of hunting and ranching rights of people and myself who actually live in affected area strongly urge you to Support efforts to allow wolves to be shot on sight in Bridger Teton and other National Forests in Wyoming.
    Because I support the conservation value of our National Forests, and because I believe in responsible management of wolves and other wildlife, I urge you to do whatever you can to Support efforts to shoot-on-sight wolves on our National Forests. I also ask that you step up efforts beyond current plan.
    Thank you for considering my comments. I look forward to your reply.

    Kinda curious. How about a poll on the level of support for wolves.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2011
  12. dook

    dook Well-Known Member

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    Wolves switch up to beef, says study



    By Sheena Read, Editor

    Posted 5 months ago


    Sheena Read
    Editor
    Wolves will eat beef if they have a choice in the menu.
    A recent paper published by the Ecological Society of America shows that wolf diets change seasonally when livestock are on the landscape.
    The study, conducted by University of Alberta PhD student Andrea Morehouse and Dr. Mark Boyce, professor at the U of A department of biological sciences, says that although wild ungulates are the primary prey for wolves, livestock predation is a growing concern in areas where wolf and livestock territory overlap.
    Predation on cattle in Alberta occurs mostly in the southwest corner of the province, with 37 per cent of all paid claims on livestock losses.
    Predation in this corner is a year-round problem for cattle producers because wildlife habitats overlap grazing lands.
    "The primary period of concern regarding livestock loss is summer and early fall, when cattle graze freely on public land, often in high densities, with little to no monitoring," the study says.
    These grazing times coincide with wolf pup rearing season.
    From June to October, cluster kill sites indicated that nearly half of the animals killed by wolves were cattle, with the remaining kills being mostly elk, moose and deer. About 40 per cent of the cattle killed were calves, 40 per cent were yearlings, and less than 20 per cent were adult cows or bulls.
    Scat samples indicated that killed and scavenged cattle made up about 60 per cent of the wolf diet, and the other 40 per cent was wild prey.

    When cattle have been moved off these areas, and these territories are in non-grazing season, wolf diets switch back to ungulates, in what Morehouse and Boyce note as prey switching.
    Wolves also scavenged more during the non-grazing season, and 85 per cent of all scavenging events occurred at rancher boneyards or deadstock piles.
    Because scavenging at deadstock piles makes up a large part of the seasonal diet, wolves visited these sites repeatedly, and because of the location of the deadstock piles near ranch buildings, this brought the wolves into close contact with other activities such as calving.
    The study used clusters of global positioning system (GPS) telemetry relocations and scat analysis to investigate wolf diets throughout the year.
    Wolf diets were studied in a 3,300 square kilometre area in southwestern Alberta, where wolf-cattle conflicts are highest. This area is a narrow region of public land that represents an important corridor between a large population of wolves in Canada and one in the U.S.
    The majority of seasonally-grazed cattle in this forestry area is cow-calf pairs and yearlings.
    Four wolves from three packs — the Crowsnest pack, Bob Creek pack and Castle Carbondale pack — were collared with GPS radiocollars. The data off these collars provided locations of wolfs, and as a result, depending on the time spent at these locations, also indicated kill sites or scavenge sites.
    The team of researchers visited 698 cluster sites, finding 181 kill sites and 32 scavenge sites. The other sites were bedding, denning and rendevous sites.
    Examination of 319 scats identified 675 prey items.
    The remains of 50 cattle at wolf kill sites were identified during the course of the study from the three packs, averaging at 17 head per pack per year. The GPS data allowed the team to locate cattle that otherwise may have been classified as missing at the end of the season. Because Fish and Wildlife have to confirm kills, the data allowed sites to be identified at least sooner than they may have been otherwise.
    Results from the study showed higher predation numbers than what had been previously believed.
    While the predator compensation program pays 100 per cent of the market value of livestock killed by wolves or bears, and 50 per cent for probable kills, there are no programs to compensate for missing animals.
    The study recommends solutions such as bear-proof metal storage bins for deadstock to reduce scavenging and to prevent wolves and bears from becoming accustomed to the livestock diet and to the pattern.
     
  13. athompson4

    athompson4 Member

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    For those that claim that hunting wolves will not put a dent in the population, please consider this: how was it that the old timers and homesteaders managed to nearly eradicate wolves from the area? Anyone I've talked to said they just up and shot every wolf they saw.
     
  14. dook

    dook Well-Known Member

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    What time period, what location? Cyanide was in widespread use in the 1880's.

    Shooting every wolf you see is great, but for every wolf you see, 50 wolves see you.