New to the forum, 6.5-284 question

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by 1shot1yote, Sep 4, 2012.

  1. 1shot1yote

    1shot1yote Active Member

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    Hi, I am new to the forum, and it seems there are quite a few people here shooting the 6.5. I just got a Savage LRH in 6.5-284 and I'm struggling a little bit with this thing. I have only gotten one good group out of it and that was after a lot of testing.

    I'm wanting to shoot the 140 Berger VLD's but I'm really having a hard time getting any velocity out of them this group below was my best (probably ever), MV only 2650. Load info- 48.0 gr 4831sc, Remington 9 1/2, OAL 3.095 that's .120 off the lands according to my measurements. Cases are new Lapua.

    I have tried all the powders I had available IMR 4350, IMR 4831, H 4831sc . I found out that this rifle does not like Fed 210 primers, it seems to like 9 1/2s or Win LR. I didn't care for the Win primers they flattened out with a mild load of 46.5 gr of 4350. Could this be a headspace issue? I would really like to get around 2950 MV and .5 MOA groups.

    I have read where many people are loading around 53 gr of 4831sc. I seem to get a sticky bolt handle near 50, could my gun be this much different? Sorry about the rant, and Thanks ahead of time.
     

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  2. rscott5028

    rscott5028 Well-Known Member

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    How does it do with factory ammo? e.g. Black Hills or HSM?

    48.0 grains of h4831sc and 2650 fps is pretty low.

    I too see guys with long barrels getting >3000 fps using around 53 gr of h4831sc.

    My max is around 51.3 grains of h4831sc in a couple of rifles with Lapua brass and either Fed 210m or CCI primers running around 2900 fps.

    I doubt you have a headspace issue. But, it's easy enough to measure how much your brass is growing before/after firing/sizing using Hornady or Sinclair comparators.

    I might suspect your scale needs calibrating. But, that'd mean your chrony is off as well.

    High pressure with low velocity using several powders is just another indication that something's not right here.

    With a new rifle, I wouldn't expect a huge buildup of copper fouling which can increase pressure somewhat. I assume you're cleaning/breaking in the barrel?

    You might want to double check your trim length and possibly measure your chamber to make sure your neck isn't cut short or otherwise pinching the case upon firing thus causing a pressure spike. I've used Cerrosafe for this. But, there are other tools and home made gizmos for measuring.

    While unlikely, Savage has cut bad chambers and even had barrels with the rifling not running the full length of the bore.

    -- richard
     

  3. 1shot1yote

    1shot1yote Active Member

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    I have not shot any factory ammo through it, kind of hard to get around here. That was something I was thinking of doing but at 56 dollars a box (Cabela's) that's an expensive test.

    I did not size the brass prior to shooting, just grabbed them out of the box and loaded them. I resized a handful of cases just to see and if I remember right they were about .010 longer after being fired. I do not have a comparator. My father and I reload together and all my stuff is at his house so I can't measure anything else.


    Thanks

    Justin
     
  4. rscott5028

    rscott5028 Well-Known Member

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    Lapua is about as good as anything out of the box to load and shoot. But, I still prefer to do a complete prep on the brass.

    Expensive is wasting a bunch of handloads and not getting any closer to your desired load. So, it's a good thing you recognized something isn't quite right and stopped to think it over.

    Just for sanity, you might even check the diameter and weight of your bullets. It's highly unlikely that you got the wrong bullets. But, it could happen. A more likely scenario would be loading for a 168 Berger while seating 180's in a 7mm cartridge.

    -- richard
     
  5. 1shot1yote

    1shot1yote Active Member

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    I checked them with dial calipers and they measure right on .264. You mentioned before about my scale maybe being off, but I weighed the bullets out of curiosity and the ones I weighed all came within a couple tenths either way or right on 140. I did check some of these loads against the old balance beam and it seems to be right there too.

    Thanks
    Justin
     
  6. 297joshua

    297joshua Member

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    Hey, I use 140gr Berger VLD hunting bullets, 49.3grs of H4350, CCI BR2 primers, and Lapua brass. I have my bullets .120 off the lans for a 3.07" oal. I tried it with all of the berger suggestions and this is where my gun liked them the best. They shoot at 3040fps which is great for me and will shoot .5" or better all day long. I had to monkey with the stock to get it to do this. I could put within.25" and the third would fly 2".
     
  7. 1shot1yote

    1shot1yote Active Member

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    I pulled the action out of the stock to see if there was anything going on. The one thing i did see that I didn't care for was that the sides of the action rub on the bedding block and the bottom doesn't contact the bedding block at all. Seems like it could be torquing the action funny. I replaced the action and retorqued the screws to 40 in/lbs per Savage specs.

    I have my load data here and 49.2 gr of IMR 4350 only yielded around 2850 MV. I don't remember the group but I'm sure it was over 2''

    Thanks
    Justin
     
  8. 1shot1yote

    1shot1yote Active Member

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    Ok I have some new info and would like to know what you guys think. I thought maybe it was a headspace issue so i placed a piece of masking tape on the back of a new Lapua case, bolt closes just fine. I then placed another piece of tape, bolt closes fine. Placed one more piece of tape and the bolt will not close.

    I also tried this with some once fired, and resized brass. Neither will close with any tape on the back of the case at all. Does this mean I have some out of spec brass?

    I sized a 284 Win case that I found in our range brass bucket and tried the tape thing with that too. Bolt will not close with tape on back of case. Any suggestions would be great.


    Thanks
    Justin
     
  9. rscott5028

    rscott5028 Well-Known Member

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    How thick is your masking tape?

    Did you remove the ejector and/or extractor?

    Have you considered purchasing some tools to measure your cases before and after firing rather than relying on squishy old masking tape?

    Have you done any load development with fire-formed brass?

    Did you full length or neck size the fire formed brass?

    Did that produce the same pressure signs as the virgin brass with low doses of powder?

    -- richard
     
  10. 1shot1yote

    1shot1yote Active Member

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    Sorry I meant to put that in my last post. Masking tape measured .005 I know I need to purchase a comparator and such but I'm kind of on a budget. I have not done any loads with fire formed brass. Is this where I'm having trouble? I did not remove ejector or extractor when I was doing the tape test. I full length resized the once fired brass.

    Thanks
    Justin
     
  11. rscott5028

    rscott5028 Well-Known Member

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    3 layers of .005" thick masking tape seems like a bit much.

    But, it compresses and is distorted by the plunger, etc. So, it's pretty unreliable.

    Do you have any idea how far back you bumped the shoulder on the resized brass?

    -- richard
     
  12. FUBAR

    FUBAR Well-Known Member

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    You did not say what distance you are shooting or what twist rate your barrel is. Is this a new or used rifle?

    How many rounds down the tube?

    Are you sure you have a good chamber OAL? Have you tried pushing it more towards the lands?
     
  13. CogburnR

    CogburnR Well-Known Member

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    My 111LRH shoots about 2825fps with a 140 nosler, 51g H4831sc,and a CCI Br2 primer at 3.080 Pressure signs start at 51.5g of H4831sc.

    RL 17 is faster.

    Something sounds fishy with your rifle.
     
  14. 1shot1yote

    1shot1yote Active Member

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    rscott- I do not know how far I bumped the shoulder back.

    FUBAR- The rifle is brand new Savage 111 LRH 1-8 twist, I was shooting at 100yds. I have shot it probably about 80 times. I've tried the bullets right out near the lands and the accuracy was no better.

    I'm going to do a couple groups with resized brass this weekend and see how they shoot and if there are any pressure signs with standard loads. I read somewhere that if new brass were undersize that it might mimic signs of over pressure.

    Thanks
    Justin