My next Rifle? Your opinions please

[Jack Hoyt]

Earlier this year i had my first LR rifle built based on suggestions and help from this forum. It is a great 300 WM all decked out but did come in a little on heavy side. Still 2 trips tbis fall and a Muley and a Pronghorn down!!

Now I need more of a mid range/semi long range gun that is light enough to take on a backpack hunt or carry anywhere and powerful enough for Mule deer or smaller game. Looking for production rifle under 1,400.00 due to budget.

Been looking at Ruger Hawkeye FTW, Winchester Extreme Weather SS, Savage long range hunter, Montana Rifle Company X2, Tikka T3x or Hunter SS or ____________. Hopeing for a 6.5 Creedmore or maybe a 308? Any recommendation or pros and cons? Thanks!!!

 

[hawk45]

Check out the Weatherby Vanguard 2 Wilderness, comes in at about $750. I just got one in 270 Win, but they also have in .308. I was torn between the two but have several .308's and thought a 270 would be a good add to the safe. Comes with a nice B&C stock from the factory, 24" fluted barrel and only weights 6.5 lbs empty (weighted mine). If looking to lighten up a bit, it's a nice rig. Beefy action but still lightweight.

 

[NEMTHunter]

What do you call midrange to longrange?

I have a 243 and my brother has a 6.5 creedmoor. Both are in the Ruger american predator. I to was looking for a cheap lightweight gun, That has the ability to shoot sub MOA groups. Also wanted one I would not feel as bad about banging it around. Theses rifles do that no problem. I have not even worked up a "pet" load for mine yet ( still shooting my hand loads for my other 243 I sold) and my brother is shooting factory amo with good results. My gun was about 439.00 out the door. You can get them cheaper if you shop around. This leaves plenty of room to put a good scope on it., And still be under your 1400 limit of just the gun. I know most people would not be willing to go with a Ruger American. I was not sold on it till I had one and started using it. For the price they are a good gun. Also they have the same basic trigger and bolt as the RPR's.


Also another selling point was they are 100% American made.

 

[Jack Hoyt]

I will look at the Weatherby also. I am also still considering tbe Ruger. For me this will be a midwest deer rifle and,a e ery so often out West rifle for Pronghorn, deer or Mule deer. Shooting 100 to 600 yds max most likely. I just like to have a rifle that i know is capable of shooting out farther if ever needed. Still debating on the caliber? Thanks

 

[Elkwonder]

First let me say that I was in your shoes very recently with about the same budget. Next let me say that you have set your budget 100 dollars short of an absolute dream of a production rifle. For 1500 to 1550 you can get an Legendary Arms Works rifle. I got a new one last week shipped for that and I am in amazement as to the fit and finish, balance and just overall feel. I truly think it is the best looking production rifle out there. Give them a look.
also be aware there are a few negative reviews about the "earlier batch", but I fully believe the bugs have been worked out. I have not had a chance to get to the range yet, but I have NO worries!!!!

 

[NEMTHunter]

If your wanting to push out farther then 600 on deer I would have a hard time going with the 6.5 Now a 270 or 30-06 would be a better bet even the 308 will have more punch out farther then 600 yards then the 6.5 . The 6.5 is a nice round that would work on deer out to 500 maybe even 600 if you place the shot well. But then could take and shoot PD or yotes out to 1000...

As long as your happy with it that's what counts!

 

[toddc]

If your wanting to push out farther then 600 on deer I would have a hard time going with the 6.5 Now a 270 or 30-06 would be a better bet even the 308 will have more punch out farther then 600 yards then the 6.5 . The 6.5 is a nice round that would work on deer out to 500 maybe even 600 if you place the shot well. But then could take and shoot PD or yotes out to 1000...

As long as your happy with it that's what counts!

HUH? 308 is mandated to be used in some matches because a 6.5 would murder it. A .6 BC 140 gr at 2800 is very nasty and will walk all over any 308 load out there with less weight and recoil. No brainer for what he has specced out.

 

[Creedmoor shooter]

HUH? 308 is mandated to be used in some matches because a 6.5 would murder it. A .6 BC 140 gr at 2800 is very nasty and will walk all over any 308 load out there with less weight and recoil. No brainer for what he has specced out.

I was thinking the same thing lol. Im pushing a 143 at 2875...... its bad medicine

 

[NEMTHunter]

HUH? 308 is mandated to be used in some matches because a 6.5 would murder it. A .6 BC 140 gr at 2800 is very nasty and will walk all over any 308 load out there with less weight and recoil. No brainer for what he has specced out.

I am not sure I would agree with you on the fact that a 6.5 will walk all over a 308. Now if you are bullet weight limited to below 155 grains i could see the 6.5 walking all over the 308 no problem. But as a hunting load you are not limited to a specific grain bullet.

Dont get me wrong. I like the 6.5 a lot. Its a very good round and can do lots of good things. The 308 loaded right has the ability to have more down range punch then you can get out of the 6.5

Just for quick reference I took load data from Nosler for both the 6.5 and 308. Both are with 24 inch barrels.

The data below is from sea level and 70F degrees. Zero at 100 yards. 1.8 inch sight hight. Berger ballistic chart used.


Biggest round for the 6.5 is 140 grain. Unless there is anew one now??
6.5 140 grain max FPS of 2731 ::: 500 yards, 2051 fps , 1308 ft-lb, -9.82 MOA
1000 yards, 1471 fps, 672 ft-lbs, -30.14 MOA

Smaller round for the 308 Can go up on size.
308 155 grain max fps of 2997 :::: 500 yards, 2103 fps, 1522 ft-lbs, -8.45 MOA
1000 yards, 1372 fps, 648 ft-lb, -28.25 MOA

( Interesting enough the 308 has less puch the 6.5 at 1000 yards but at 800 the 308 still has more punch. Not much but more punch)

Lets jump up to the 168 grain bullet in the 308.
308 168 grain max fps of 2910 ::: 500 yards, 2089 fps, 1628 ft-lbs, -8.85 MOA
1000 yards 1408 fps, 740 ft-lbs, -28.74 MOA

Here the 308 starts to shine a little more. Still not a lot better then the 6.5 but still better. With the 168 grain bullet the 308 beats the 6.5 all the way up to 1000 yards. Interesting enough with both these loads its flatter shooting then the 6.5. Not buy much though!


you can hand load and improve or make worth the data used above. Again this is load data from nosler. With hand loads anything can go. With my 30-06 i am pushing a 215 berger match hybrid dead on 2800 fps. For a 30-06 thats some punch.

To the OP. Either way, if you go 6.5 or 308 it will be a good round. As long as you are happy with it thats what counts.

 

[WildRose]

I will look at the Weatherby also. I am also still considering tbe Ruger. For me this will be a midwest deer rifle and,a e ery so often out West rifle for Pronghorn, deer or Mule deer. Shooting 100 to 600 yds max most likely. I just like to have a rifle that i know is capable of shooting out farther if ever needed. Still debating on the caliber? Thanks

I picked up a bargain on a Ruger Hawkeye FTW in .260 Rem about three months ago and so far I am extremely pleased with it.

https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=Ruger+FTW+Hawkeye

If I weren't already gun poor I'd buy two more in 300wm and 375 Ruger.

Personally I would not go much below 7-8lbs on a bare rifle because the lighter they get the more recoil becomes an issue and as a general rule all else being equal heavier is steadier and steadier is more accurate.

 

[toddc]

I am not sure I would agree with you on the fact that a 6.5 will walk all over a 308. Now if you are bullet weight limited to below 155 grains i could see the 6.5 walking all over the 308 no problem. But as a hunting load you are not limited to a specific grain bullet.

Dont get me wrong. I like the 6.5 a lot. Its a very good round and can do lots of good things. The 308 loaded right has the ability to have more down range punch then you can get out of the 6.5

Just for quick reference I took load data from Nosler for both the 6.5 and 308. Both are with 24 inch barrels.

The data below is from sea level and 70F degrees. Zero at 100 yards. 1.8 inch sight hight. Berger ballistic chart used.


Biggest round for the 6.5 is 140 grain. Unless there is anew one now??
6.5 140 grain max FPS of 2731 ::: 500 yards, 2051 fps , 1308 ft-lb, -9.82 MOA
1000 yards, 1471 fps, 672 ft-lbs, -30.14 MOA

Smaller round for the 308 Can go up on size.
308 155 grain max fps of 2997 :::: 500 yards, 2103 fps, 1522 ft-lbs, -8.45 MOA
1000 yards, 1372 fps, 648 ft-lb, -28.25 MOA

( Interesting enough the 308 has less puch the 6.5 at 1000 yards but at 800 the 308 still has more punch. Not much but more punch)

Lets jump up to the 168 grain bullet in the 308.
308 168 grain max fps of 2910 ::: 500 yards, 2089 fps, 1628 ft-lbs, -8.85 MOA
1000 yards 1408 fps, 740 ft-lbs, -28.74 MOA

Here the 308 starts to shine a little more. Still not a lot better then the 6.5 but still better. With the 168 grain bullet the 308 beats the 6.5 all the way up to 1000 yards. Interesting enough with both these loads its flatter shooting then the 6.5. Not buy much though!


you can hand load and improve or make worth the data used above. Again this is load data from nosler. With hand loads anything can go. With my 30-06 i am pushing a 215 berger match hybrid dead on 2800 fps. For a 30-06 thats some punch.

To the OP. Either way, if you go 6.5 or 308 it will be a good round. As long as you are happy with it thats what counts.

So 2997 with a 155 but only 2731 for the CREED? You ever loaded these two? 3k for a 308= 30" tube.
So essentially the Creed gets a 22" tube and the 308 a 30"? Seems fair.

Now, what about WIND? Hmmmm I will **** sure take the Creed there.

How about penetration? Well a 140 or 143 or 147 or 155 or 160 6.5 will outpenetrate a 155 308 all day long.

Recoil? Uhhhhhh CREED.

Also lets use the same tube on both rigs. Lets run the 155 at 2800 and the 140 at 2800. That should be fair and actually a little favoring the 308.

Now what do the numbers say?

Also lets run the wind numbers (THE ONLY NUMBERS THAT REALLY MATTER).

Who wins now?

According to Berger the 6.5 wins. Ya have to compare apples to apples and juicing one round by 250 FPS while downloading the other isn't apples to apples.

 

[toddc]

And BTW when ya pull the trigger on that 308 168 gr at 2910, unless its in a loooong tube ya might wanna wear a REALLY GOOD set of shooting glasses.

 

[FEENIX]

Now I need more of a mid range/semi long range gun that is light enough to take on a backpack hunt or carry anywhere and powerful enough for Mule deer or smaller game. Looking for production rifle under 1,400.00 due to budget.

Been looking at Ruger Hawkeye FTW, Winchester Extreme Weather SS, Savage long range hunter, Montana Rifle Company X2, Tikka T3x or Hunter SS or ____________. Hopeing for a 6.5 Creedmore or maybe a 308? Any recommendation or pros and cons? Thanks!!!

Check out the Savage 11/111 Lightweight Hunter series (5.5 LBS) and Savage 16/116 Lightweight Hunter series (5.65 LBS); both of the chambering you're looking for are available.

You might also want to consider Build Your E.R. Shaw Mk. VII Rifle

If your wanting to push out farther then 600 on deer I would have a hard time going with the 6.5 Now a 270 or 30-06 would be a better bet even the 308 will have more punch out farther then 600 yards then the 6.5 . The 6.5 is a nice round that would work on deer out to 500 maybe even 600 if you place the shot well. But then could take and shoot PD or yotes out to 1000...

As long as your happy with it that's what counts!

lightbulbThat's the bottom-line.lightbulb

 

[NEMTHunter]

And BTW when ya pull the trigger on that 308 168 gr at 2910, unless its in a loooong tube ya might wanna wear a REALLY GOOD set of shooting glasses.

Again the load data used was the MAX loads that Nosler list's for the given caliber. Both had 24" barrels...

So it is apples to apples. as far as that goes.



Sorry OP for the off topic and mucking up your thread. Sorry about that. I will stop now.


Either way you go as long as you are happy that's what counts. Good luck and enjoy your new (soon to be new) Gun.