Muzzle brake question

[codyadams]

ya, I am working a graveyard shift tonight so I finally have some time to do a little research ha ha. I'll check into the t3's and Kirby's offering, and whatever else I find tonight.

Living/shooting in the beautiful Wyoming high desert, almost all the shooting I do has loose sand/dirt (and almost always with wind) with my rifle with no break on it I still get some crap on my shooting mat, so I certainly dont want any brake with bottom venting holes.

Looking at them, I'm kind of surprised that Gunwerks here in Wyoming mostly have the radial type brakes on their rifles, they themselves say that you should do the majority of your shooting on the ground, and they live in Wyoming were if you have less than a 10mph wind, it's a good day!! I watched a video of Aaron demonstrating the difference of shooting on a bench vs bipod shooting, and even in gravel you can see his shooting matt getting covered in grass and dirt. Not anything against them in any way, they really know their stuff, but I just wonder why they choose the radial type brakes over any other style, when their rifles are geared towards hunting and they strongly suggest shooting how you hunt, which is mostly on the ground. They look a little cleaner and are probably easier to manufacture, that would be my only guess.

 

[gusd]

First off I'm trying to be objective not argumentive with a .300 wm what are you trying to gain with a brake? Unless you have a fairly heavy rifle you are not going to be able to tame your recoil enough to spot your shots. And if you are shooting a lighter rifle a radial brake that is not blowing anything back towards you like a lot of the side port brakes do makes the radial brake a better choice not really a detriment like the side port brakes.At least that's the way I look at it.

 

[WildRose]

First off I'm trying to be objective not argumentive with a .300 wm what are you trying to gain with a brake? Unless you have a fairly heavy rifle you are not going to be able to tame your recoil enough to spot your shots. And if you are shooting a lighter rifle a radial brake that is not blowing anything back towards you like a lot of the side port brakes do makes the radial brake a better choice not really a detriment like the side port brakes.At least that's the way I look at it.

I'm just pointing out the facts.

What you are gaining with a good brake on a light rifle is significant reduction of felt recoil and reduced muzzle flip.

I have shot a great many different makes of muzzle brakes including the Vias on 6.8SPC's, .308's, 7mm Rem's, 7mm STW's, 300wm's, 300 Rum's, and .375 Ruger most of which are 8lbs or less including a very light weight Model 70 300 Rum so I have a great deal of experience with them. I also live and hunt most of the time in semi arid country much of which is done shooting prone from the edges of wheat fields.

I've had at least six different models of brakes over the years starting with the KDF and Browning Boss system. I've also shot a good many rifles belonging to my brother and good friends many of which are also equipped with various models of muzzle brakes. I'm not married to any product and put a lot of time and research into products before I settle on one.

A good muzzle brake can reduce felt recoil by around 70% and reduce muzzle flip dramatically. Some are more efficient than others at one or both and some are harder than others on the ears depending on how much of the gasses and blast is directed back towards the shooter and at what angle.

I picked up a used Model 70 Sharp Shooter 7mm STW that came with an unmarked muzzle brake that I quickly found to not only be very effective and went on a search to see if I could figure out who made it. I started a thread on the subject here and another of our members quickly responded telling me it was made by Snowy Mountain Rifles. I then came across the North West Precision brake that is very similar in design and in the slotted version (vs drilled ports at 10&2) is even more effective at reducing recoil than the SMR I already had.

Of all the brakes I've tried this one gives me the best combination of recoil reduction, muzzle flip reduction, and being relatively easy on the ears.

Discussions like this one aren't personal to me, I just share what I know to help other people out. It doesn't hurt my feelings to find out what I have isn't the best whether we're talking makes and models of brakes, rifles, trucks, atv's or anything else. We are all a sum of our experiences and efforts and people with more experience who have put in the time and effort to learn more on any given subject don't bother me, I seek them out to increase my own knowledge and hopefully not only make my life a little easier in doing so but give me the ability to do the same for others.

 

[codyadams]

First off I'm trying to be objective not argumentive with a .300 wm what are you trying to gain with a brake? Unless you have a fairly heavy rifle you are not going to be able to tame your recoil enough to spot your shots. And if you are shooting a lighter rifle a radial brake that is not blowing anything back towards you like a lot of the side port brakes do makes the radial brake a better choice not really a detriment like the side port brakes.At least that's the way I look at it.

Actually, with the brakes I'm looking at (painkiller, apa little bastard, and a couple other side slot brakes) people are claiming spotting their shots at 200 yards and farther with similar weight 300 win mag and similar cartridges. Whether those claims are accurate or not I do not know, as I am not doing it myself, but that is not my goal anyway. My goal is to simply not hurt when I shoot, and be able to comfortably shoot prone.

And again, I do NOT want a brake that vents towards the ground, I don't like sand in my eyes. 95% of my shooting is on the ground, in really disty or sandy dirt, with the muzzle less than 18 inches from the dirt, and every radial type brake I have seen will blow up dirt when you shoot it. We had a .308 HK G3 that had a radial type brake, and it was horrible, so bad that we tapped the bottom holes and screwed stud screws in to plug the bottom 3 holes. And if I have a head wind or even a side wind, which I normally do, and average is probably 10-15 mph, then it would be even worse. With side port brakes, they will more than likely be louder for shooter and spotter, yes, but I don't really care. I always wear ear protection when shooting, even in hunting scenarios, unless I'm pushing timber, which in that case I have different rifles I use for timber, a compact .308 or a 98 mauser in 8mm-06.

The Vais brake is an excellent brake, I'm confident from reading independent reviews about them, they reduce recoil very well and aren't near as loud as most brakes. Though there are several that do a better job at reducing recoil, none others do as good of a job at not increasing the rifles report for the shooter. But, they just aren't what I'm looking for.

 

[WildRose]

Actually, with the brakes I'm looking at (painkiller, apa little bastard, and a couple other side slot brakes) people are claiming spotting their shots at 200 yards and farther with similar weight 300 win mag and similar cartridges. Whether those claims are accurate or not I do not know, as I am not doing it myself, but that is not my goal anyway. My goal is to simply not hurt when I shoot, and be able to comfortably shoot prone.

And again, I do NOT want a brake that vents towards the ground, I don't like sand in my eyes. 95% of my shooting is on the ground, in really disty or sandy dirt, with the muzzle less than 18 inches from the dirt, and every radial type brake I have seen will blow up dirt when you shoot it. We had a .308 HK G3 that had a radial type brake, and it was horrible, so bad that we tapped the bottom holes and screwed stud screws in to plug the bottom 3 holes. And if I have a head wind or even a side wind, which I normally do, and average is probably 10-15 mph, then it would be even worse. With side port brakes, they will more than likely be louder for shooter and spotter, yes, but I don't really care. I always wear ear protection when shooting, even in hunting scenarios, unless I'm pushing timber, which in that case I have different rifles I use for timber, a compact .308 or a 98 mauser in 8mm-06.

The Vais brake is an excellent brake, I'm confident from reading independent reviews about them, they reduce recoil very well and aren't near as loud as most brakes. Though there are several that do a better job at reducing recoil, none others do as good of a job at not increasing the rifles report for the shooter. But, they just aren't what I'm looking for.

Emphasis mine. That's simply not not accurate.

 

[jimbires]

I took radial brakes off two of my rifles and put the side discharge on from muzzle brakes and more .
my 8.5 pound 300 wby 24" bbl had bad muzzle jump with the radial brake . with the side discharge , it has little to none . I can spot my shots with it now , and no dirt blowing at the shot .

my 338 lapua had a radial brake . I changed it mostly because of the dirt blowing . the side discharge brake also has better recoil reduction . this rifle is a 30" bbl and about 16.5 pounds , so muzzle jump wasn't a problem with either brake .

 

[FEENIX]

I have the mini version of the one on the video with Chris from Benchmark on my .300 WSM and it works like a champ ...

[ame]https://youtu.be/FE7HujR0DRA?t=2[/ame]

I too am not a fan of radial brakes for the same reason noted by others. There are plenty of well designed MBs out there to choose from.

 

[codyadams]

Emphasis mine. That's simply not not accurate.

I was just going from testing I read research on, with the Vais brake, db level was only increased 1 or 2 db. If I recall correctly (which I may not be) the average human can't even tell a difference until there is a 3db increase/decrease. Are there many other brakes that don't increase the volume of the rifle enough to be able to discern any difference, while reducing recoil 40-60%? Are you speaking of the Northwest precision brake? Because the only reason I was turned off of the Vais brake was the radial part.

If I could get a side port that has no discernible increase in rifle report, and cuts out half the recoil, and doesn't look like it should hang on the end of a tank, that's what I would want.

 

[Rich Coyle]

First off I'm trying to be objective not argumentive with a .300 wm what are you trying to gain with a brake? Unless you have a fairly heavy rifle you are not going to be able to tame your recoil enough to spot your shots. And if you are shooting a lighter rifle a radial brake that is not blowing anything back towards you like a lot of the side port brakes do makes the radial brake a better choice not really a detriment like the side port brakes.At least that's the way I look at it.

I also am not trying to be argumentative. I can tell you from objective testing since I have made lots of brakes for my playing pleasure. It sure appears you lack experience with a good brake. A .300 Win Mag can be tamed to be about like a .243 or even better and you can see your hit. Again I see a lack of experience with side port brakes. The good side port brakes like Terminator and others will have a slight up blast with almost NO down blast.

 

[WildRose]

I was just going from testing I read research on, with the Vais brake, db level was only increased 1 or 2 db. If I recall correctly (which I may not be) the average human can't even tell a difference until there is a 3db increase/decrease. Are there many other brakes that don't increase the volume of the rifle enough to be able to discern any difference, while reducing recoil 40-60%? Are you speaking of the Northwest precision brake? Because the only reason I was turned off of the Vais brake was the radial part.

If I could get a side port that has no discernible increase in rifle report, and cuts out half the recoil, and doesn't look like it should hang on the end of a tank, that's what I would want.

The Vias kicks the sound out to the front and in 360 deg top, bottom, sides of the brake there is little to no discernable increase in sound to the shooter because he's behind it. Get out in front or to either side a few feet and that equation changes dramatically.

It offers little or no reduction in muzzle flip because it cannot do due to the ports on the bottom that add to it rather than reducing it. That is somewhat offset by the rest of the ports on the top leaving you effectively with no change in muzzle flip by using it.

What I was specifically referring to however was this statement.

Though there are several that do a better job at reducing recoil, none others do as good of a job at not increasing the rifles report for the shooter

There are a great many brakes on the market that do a better job of directing the blast and sound away from the shooter.

At the same time some of the very most effective brakes at reducing felt recoil direct much of the blast back towards the shooter. The JP tank brake is one good example and the Miculek is another. Anytime you shoot them you want to be wearing double ear protection as well as eye protection.

The vias is a decent little cheap brake that gives some reduction of recoil and that's about it. There are many much better designed brakes on the market many of which can be bought for under a hundred dollars and a decent gunsmith can install and properly time them for you in less than a half hour.

If I remember right the last rifles I had the NWPMB installed on I took in four all together and the bill including media blasting to match them to the rifles they were mounted on was about 125.00 and the other timed brakes can be installed just as easily anc cheaply in most cases.

 

[WildRose]

I also am not trying to be argumentative. I can tell you from objective testing since I have made lots of brakes for my playing pleasure. It sure appears you lack experience with a good brake. A .300 Win Mag can be tamed to be about like a .243 or even better and you can see your hit. Again I see a lack of experience with side port brakes. The good side port brakes like Terminator and others will have a slight up blast with almost NO down blast.

This is of course all true.'

I have one really light M70 300 Rum that was pretty much a beast to shoot before the brake was installed and now it's a real pleasure to shoot.

 

[codyadams]

So I'm thinking I might just go with the Northwest precision brake, as he has them in stock and everything. My other thoughts were either an APA or one of the beast brakes mentioned, a terminator or painkiller. My smith said the cost of install including the brake was $225 out the door for the NW precision. Does this seem fair?

 

[FEENIX]

So I'm thinking I might just go with the Northwest precision brake, as he has them in stock and everything. My other thoughts were either an APA or one of the beast brakes mentioned, a terminator or painkiller. My smith said the cost of install including the brake was $225 out the door for the NW precision. Does this seem fair?

Most of the local smiths in my area charges $100 to install + the cost of the MB.

Also, IIWY, I'd have it threaded for the same thread of a suppressor (i.e. 5/8-24) that you might be interested ... just in case you decide later.

 

[WildRose]

So I'm thinking I might just go with the Northwest precision brake, as he has them in stock and everything. My other thoughts were either an APA or one of the beast brakes mentioned, a terminator or painkiller. My smith said the cost of install including the brake was $225 out the door for the NW precision. Does this seem fair?

Gunsmithing rates vary a lot around the country. It would be high for my area but it may be the going rate where you are.