McMillan

Discussion in 'Equipment Discussions' started by LRHWAL, Jul 13, 2006.

  1. LRHWAL

    LRHWAL Well-Known Member

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    Well today I faxed Kelly Mc Millan and I'm hoping for a reply. But I'm not sure I'll get one.

    This is a short review of dealing with McM for me so far. The website says "We are here for you", but that's a hollow promise in my experience.

    My 10-12 week shipment is around 19 weeks I think and I'm not getting replies to e-mails, or "out of office" responses, so I figure the e-mails are received and just not replied to. Actually I know that because after I call I get a reply on my last e-mail!

    I called twice today and couldn't get an operator or any of the other extensions that I tried.

    Last I heard from McM was that my stock would ship in around 3 weeks (after calling to follow up on an e-mail that wasn't replied to) and that ws around 4 weeks ago. My last e-mail sent in response to that remains unanswered.

    Because of my love of shooting ang hunting I've done a lot of business with companies over the internet, by phone and fax in the US. I've never experienced this type of thing before.

    I wonder if the McM's even know how the customers are finding doing business with them.

    Now I've made a game of it. I'll see if I can shoot the barrel out before the stock arrives! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

    WL
     
  2. daveosok

    daveosok Guest

    Thats pretty much the story you'll find most common when dealing with McMillan.

    They have contracts to fill and your single order can be put on the back burner for as long as it takes for them to complete the contract order.

    Although they cater as well to the single guys their money maker is in contracts, therefore the single orders are subject to a long wait.

    My buddy has been waiting 4 months plus or longer when originally told 8 to 12 weeks or so. I think hes coming up on 5 months here shortly.

    If he reads this he can actually give you the exact data.

    If youre wanting a A5 try Joel Russo he makes a very nice laminated style A5 in almost any action/barrel contour and you'll get it in two weeks. You can find his product by doinga search for laminated A5 here.

    Dave
     

  3. James Jones

    James Jones Well-Known Member

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    Dave is right , I was gonna order an A5 from McM for my Sako L691 and they said that its not that common of an inlet so it may take a little longer than normal , and that worried me.
    So I shipped out my current stock to Joel Russo yesterday so he can duplicate the inlet.
    besided the colors he has a realy nice !! and hes saying that it shoulden't take but a few weeks after he get my stock to ship out the new one
     
  4. 300win

    300win Well-Known Member

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    I have been waiting 15 weeks for my stock. The last one took 17 weeks and the one before that was 21 weeks. MCM makes a great stock but these long waits are getting old. I have wondered for years why the do not expand and produce more stocks. I have cut them a little slack because I am sure they are producing allot of stocks for the military. But I will say my next stock I will shop around first and check out some of the other good stocks on the market. Maybe the long wait time is good, it sure cuts down on the impulse buying!
     
  5. Roll-Yur-Own

    Roll-Yur-Own Well-Known Member

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    I'm looking at another stock. I've been thinking about one of Jim Borden's Rimrock stocks.

    I have 2 Mcmillian stocks and they are both amazing stocks. But the wait is a pain.
     
  6. James Jones

    James Jones Well-Known Member

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    Kevin Rayhill of Stockade gunstocks makes some nice stocks , his primary inlet is for the Savages but he says he'll inlet for others.
     
  7. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

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    Popularity and quality generally add up to a delay in shipping time. The problem with the A series stocks from McMillan is that we as civilians have to compete with the military for the same stocks.

    I know there is no one on this board that minds adding a few weeks to there shipping time so that our boys get the stocks first!!

    As far as dealing with McMillan, e-mails are out, not even worth the time of typing one up. You will never get a reply from an e-mail to McMillan, at least I never have.

    I do not know how many stocks I have ordered from McMillan but I learned long ago you get them a hard copy of the order. I typed up an order form of my own design on the computer, fill it out for each stock order and fax it into McMillan. I then file that order form with a date I faxed it and any other information I may need.

    If you even need to get ahold of McMillan, you better call them. They like most smaller companies have the stange nak for taking vacations when you really need something. When they close down, they CLOSE DOWN. Alot of the companies in the firearms industry do this. Redding is famous for shutting down the plant for two weeks in the summer and during the shot show as well. McMillan is no different.

    Many have asked me why McMillan does not get more automated and expand. I hope they never do. If they do, you will get a mass produced stock instead of a one of a kind piece of art like you get now.

    In my opinion, they are well worth the wait to get what I feel is the best composite stock being made currently.

    Keep in mind, if you order a stock that is also in use with the Military, your wait will be longer then it will be for most hunting stocks.

    In this day and age, I have no problem waiting a bit more for the troops to get what they need. They need it alot more then I do.

    Just my opinion, take it for what its worth.

    Kirby Allen(50)
     
  8. daveosok

    daveosok Guest

    I am a troop and so is DA. I'm sure glad I dont need a McMillan but DA sure does and has been waiting a long time for a not so popular stock for the military the benchrest class stocks.

    I wouldnt buy a McMillan not because they have any flaws except the wait, I can get one in Laminated and be unique.

    The A5's are all the same shape and the colors dont get a lot of oo's and aa's.

    Laminated stocks do and they can represent an individuals imagination with the amount of combinations of colors.

    One thing I really like is you can outfit them with all the same bells and whistles as McMillan.

    You can get one in usually two to three weeks and Joel can be reached by email or on the phone just about anytime you need him.

    He will also go out of his way to work with what you want.

    I've heard to many stories about mcmillan such as "you can get it in any color as long as its whatever color we have most of at the time we send you yours."

    They are a fine stock but for the price and wait you cant beat Joel Russo's laminated versions.

    Dave
     
  9. LRHWAL

    LRHWAL Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the replies and suggestions.

    Hi Kirby,

    Your points are well made and, for the most part, I agree.

    Yes, I guessed that McM may have large military orders. I appreciate that and good for them.

    I have no problem with either that, or that this implies falling lower in the production ranking (provided I'm given a choice to pull out and advised immediately this becomes apparent to the supplier). Depending on my needs I may opt to make an informed decision and still go with their product. I would probably have cancelled; timing was important to me when I ordered.

    However, I do have a real problem with the poor communication and what eventually amounts to a misrepresentation regarding delivery (although this may not be the case, or intention when the represntation was made). The simple (and cheap) solution is to at least put up a banner on the website indicating delays with a rough indication as to the length thereof and preferably explaining them (and definitely offering cancellation as an alternative). These are alternatives that I will suggest to McM.

    Better still would be to issue order numbers and provide a tracking system on the website, or to contact customers and advise them directly, but sure that’s likely not feasible.

    Don't offer an e-mail system if you don't have e-mail. I had no luck by phone yesterday either. I do know when McM is closed there’s an appropriate message on the phone line.

    Part of my frustration arose from my own internal desire to "deal with it right" - I suggested cancelling, but only if production hadn't begun ; as I know that a TRG is not an order that will easily be moved onto someone else. The problem is that I could never establish where I stood, McM didn’t say “No” or “OK” and the information that I was given regarding production seems to have be wrong. Which I don’t like.

    What has happened....

    On the positive side I received a response on e-mail from McM giving me details of progress and indicating a completion date, which is a week or so off and giving me a contact person to deal with.

    I was given the option to cancel and McM indicated where I may be able to buy their bottom metal separarte from a stock.

    I have no doubt that the product is superb and that is why they are busy.

    Maybe I have unreasonable expectations, but the communication side of customer service should not suffer because of production being behind. Avoiding the problem doesn’t solve it, admitting it and offering alternatives keeps everyone happy/ier. Just my approach in my business.

    FYI shipping is apparently 18-20 weeks and with some custom fitting mine is expected at 22 weeks. Although you will obviosuly need to check yours as it is product specific from what I understand.

    What I intend to do:

    I’ll take the stock, it’s completed and just having some fitting done. Cancelling now would simply be a “proving a point” type decision and will cost McM money unnecessarily; which was never my intention.

    As an aside, if McM had let me know early on I would probably have cancelled prior to production beginning and would likely have done business with Joel who does seem to have a highly rated product and seems very client oriented.

    Oh, and it seems I won't get that barrel shot out before delivery after all!

    Wim
     
  10. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

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    LRHWAL,

    I will agree that in your case, McMillan should have handled things differently and could have prevented you alot of frustration. One thing to understand though is that you never tell a manufacturer that you want to cancel the order "Unless its under production."

    In my experience, if they have the order, its under production to them and they do not want to give up an order so you know what they say, "Its already in production."

    Once McMillan actually starts making your stock, it takes very little real time from start to finish, its getting it to that starting point that seems to be the problem.

    I will be honest in saying that I have not ordered any custom or semi custom inlettings from McMillan. I suspect this may have as much to do with the delay as anything.

    I did order a stock quite a while back for a Lilja #8 contour barrel inlet. I got a phone call to send the barrel down so that they could use it to write up a program for their CNC inletting machine.

    This would have been fine but the barrel had just been ordered and I did not want to wait for +12 weeks after I got the barrel to ship the barrel down and then have the stock made after that. My customer really did not want that.

    As such, I called them up and told them to change the barrel channel contour to a simple 1.250" straight cylinder barrel. I had the stock right on the 12 week shipping date.

    As far as the wood A-5s go. Yes, the time is right, and the price is right but they are unfinished and if someone is not able to finish their own stock it will cost them quite a bit to get a professional to do it. Also you need to add the cost of recoil pad and installation as well as swivel studs and installation. WHen they are finished they are beautiful stocks and stable as anything out there if pillar bedded properly.

    STill though, there is one thing about an A-5 laminated stock, you better not be worried about rifle weight because they are heavy! Very heavy compared to the same design in a composite stock.

    Personally I like a little stock weight. I use alot of 30" relatively heavy barrels and the heavier stocks balance a rifle much better but many want this type of stock on a lighter weight portable style rifle. For those, the laminate stock is not a good choice in my opinion.

    I guess basically where we stand is if you want a McMillan you will have to wait for one. If you do not want to wait, there are other stock makers out there that can be used to full effect as well. Just what you want and what your willing to wait for.

    I have also ordered custom receivers that were supposed to be shipped within 4 months of order and they showed up twice that far down the road. Just part of the custom componant game I guess because most companies are like this to some degree.

    Even gunsmiths /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif!!!

    Kirby Allen(50)
     
  11. jb1000br

    jb1000br Well-Known Member

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    Kirby -- from what i have heard, the longest wait is to get it on the CNC for inletting...that the stock is actually cast pretty early...then again, I may be wrong...

    JB
     
  12. Buckmaster

    Buckmaster Active Member

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    I waited over a year one time for a custom action that was supposed to take 3 months. Needless to say, I was pi$$ed. I came close to leaving a nasty message on voicemail.

    In the end I got a great action and I'm real happy. I was lied to ans mislead, but the finished product is great.

    Like kirby said, these thing happen in the custom game.
     
  13. älg

    älg Well-Known Member

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    Just a year?? My action took a year to reach the gunsmith, now I a still waiting for a rifle ordered in feb 2005 /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif
     
  14. Meister

    Meister Well-Known Member

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    Building a truly custom rifle is much like sitting down with an artist to have them make a sculpture that will match your taste and color scheme.

    I was in a unique position to be able to individually purchase components for the caliber and purpose I specified. Many of these components have a long lead time, including the McMillan A5 with a thumbwheel cheekpiece and adjustable buttplate. I had my dealer ask the barrel maker what is the best twist, length and taper for my needs. At this point I sat down with the smith to discuss the build itself, including bedding, setup, finish tolerance and recoil lug specifics. I realize this will more than likely be the only rifle around exactly like this one because of everyones input and my tastes. I have ABSOLUTELY no intention of rushing anyone, I make mistakes when I get in a hurry, so does most everyone else. I expect this rifle will take more than six months to get everything ready to be shipped to the smith. I have every intention of keeping this piece of art for the rest of my life, so the wait is nothing.

    We live in a fast food society where speed is more important than almost anything else. Price has become more important than quality.

    I'm a big believer in the small family owned business, where quality is key and the price is reasonable for the quality recieved. Customer service is always great and the people genuinely care about you as a person and not just a number towards their bottom line. It's been 8 years since I stepped foot inside a Walmart, their brand of sacrificing quality, customer service, and treating their employees poorly makes me ill.

    I've exceeded the weight limit on this soap box so I'll stop here. Bottom line, quality comes at a price, don't let that deter you from getting the best. You will be happier with your investment in the long run.