Long range elk/deer... 7mm mag vs. 300 win mag?

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by AR_Clint, Dec 15, 2005.

  1. AR_Clint

    AR_Clint Member

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    I'm looking to get a new hunting rifle to replace the one that was stolen a few months back.

    What are the differences between the 7mm mag and the 300 win mag? All I've really heard is that the 300 kicks harder. Does someone know where a chart is that shows velocity and energy at different distances.

    Thanks,
    Clint
     
  2. jro45

    jro45 Well-Known Member

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    I know that the 300 recoils about 32 ft lbs shooting a 180gr bullet at 3050fps. The 7mm recoils probably about
    26 to 28 ft lbs shooting a 160 gr bullet at 3000 fps. I shoot them both and can't complain about the recoil because it doesn't bother me.
     

  3. abinok

    abinok Writers Guild

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    Clint,
    Heres the basic rundown...
    If you are planning on loading heavy for caliber bullets, with both cases near their max capability velocity wise, in a rifle that will be the same weight for either case, recoil will be nearly identical. I doubt anybody but the most recoil sensative could tell the differance.

    I know I can't, especially in a heavier rifle like moat of us shoot at LR.

    The strength of the 7mm lies in its exterior ballistics. 168-180gr bullets with their high BC require few moa at LR, and buck the wind quite well. Better than anthing you can throw from the 300WM in fact.
    The strength of the 30 lies in its terminal ballistics 190-220gr bullets retain high velocity at LR and land with authority. Noticabely more authority than lesser bullets.
    Now then, just how much differance is there? really not a lot. There are folks here who have killed elk at LR with the bigger 7mms, so they obviously do ok, and there have been thousands taken with the 300WM, so they do ok as well. The differance in trajectory is there, but unless you are planning to shoot at 1200+yds, the differance is not pronounced. at 1K the 220SMK from a 300WM will drift 1" per mph more than the 180 Berger from the 7mag. trajectory wise at 1200, there is only 5 moa differance, virtually meaningless. Energy wise, the 300 wins to 900 or so, and the 7mm past that.

    Right now, my 300WM is great. Its killed p dogs past 1k, and paper at 9/10 of a mile. Ive shot enough stuff between 1350 and 1575 do decide that id have no problem with killing power at 1500 if I can get the bullet in the right place.

    That being said, a 7stw reamer lays on the desk nest to the computer mouse, and where 220SMKs have flown, 180Bergers and 176 Cauteruccios will fly soon.
     
  4. AR_Clint

    AR_Clint Member

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    Wow. Thanks guys. Very informative. So basically the 7mm works better than the 300win in wind and has a flatter trajectory, but the 300win is more powerfull and a longer range round yet kicks a bit more?
     
  5. budlight

    budlight Well-Known Member

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    Both the 7 mag and 300 mag have a place in history and should be put up on the wall next to the 30-30. The word mag was an old selling point. Now it's Ultra Mag or Short Mag that you should look at. In comercial rounds the 7mm STW is hard to beat.
     
  6. Charles A

    Charles A Well-Known Member

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    I still maintain the 300WM is the best round for a new LR shooter, if only for the fact that its easy to load for, good loads are well known, and you can buy factory match ammo.
     
  7. Derek M.

    Derek M. Well-Known Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    I still maintain the 300WM is the best round for a new LR shooter, if only for the fact that its easy to load for, good loads are well known, and you can buy factory match ammo.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I agree. I've got a 7mag and I sold my 300WM but bumped up to the 300 RUM.

    But, the 300WM is certainly hard to beat.
     
  8. 7ultra

    7ultra Well-Known Member

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    Tell that to the top selling charts for dies and brass. For practical purposes its hard to beat either of these two oldies but goodies. Their very common place, easy to load for and last time I checked, will still kill (thats why I have both, well the 300 made way for a 338 win, another history book member eh?). I wouldn't discount them just because of their age, unless your into sexy new selling points like "ultra" and "short".

    Now between the two cartridges, I think its a wash. If I had to buy new all over again, I would pick the 7. I like the way it shoots, how it kicks (mine is chambered in a nice and lite M77, and is a pussy cat), and what it does to deer (drops them, hard...). Now thats not to say I wouldn't ever buy a 300 WM again though. Its a pretty thing watching 200gr SMKs work their magic over LR. I would say, go with 7, load a nice 160gr pill and don't look to much at the up and coming hype.
     
  9. Mysticplayer

    Mysticplayer Writers Guild

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    I chose the 7RM because of recoil and better LR ballistics. Both will work admirably a very long ways out.

    Jerry
     
  10. abinok

    abinok Writers Guild

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Wow. Thanks guys. Very informative. So basically the 7mm works better than the 300win in wind and has a flatter trajectory, but the 300win is more powerfull and a longer range round yet kicks a bit more?


    [/ QUOTE ] WEll... kinda. it depends on what you mean by the 300 being a longer range round. The 7 will have a longer range to subsonic, more energy past 900, and in general has superior external ballistics. The 7 will have more energy at LR than the 300, but there is someting independant at work when you are comparing the 180gr bullets to 220gr bullets. Start with more bullet, end with more bullet regaurdless. It has been my experence that even at ranges where the 300 is lagging behind another bullet in the energy department, it will still leave a deeper dent in steel, penertate more dirt, and generally do bad things where it lands. If this is what you meant... then maybe /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

    Budlight, im just curious as to exactly what you think a WSM will do that the standard magnums won't? Keep in mind that they have less capacity across the board, and lag several FPS behind with heavy bullets when loaded to the same pressure. The only very very very marginal advantage is no belt... but the 7stw you mention has one so that can't be what you were refering to. as the its place next to the 30-30... if you mean as a very popular hunting round that will probably be popular untill ther are no more guns, I agree. If you mean they are outdated... then thats one of the funniest things ive heard in a while.
    Charles,
    [ QUOTE ]
    I still maintain the 300WM is the best round for a new LR shooter, if only for the fact that its easy to load for, good loads are well known, and you can buy factory match ammo.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    I couldn't have said it better myself.
     
  11. 7ultra

    7ultra Well-Known Member

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    Abinok,
    I couldn't have said it better myself. I think some of the current advertisement is sinking in a bit too deep. Darn, I'm only 21 and I think the greatest invention since sliced bread have been the belted mags( those being the 264, 7mm, 300, and 338). The current "ultra mags" are definately a great advancement for the general shooting public, but for the the reloaders amongst us, they are nothing new. Hell, it really sucks to be Canadian Imprireal doesn't it? Oh well, I'll shut up so Remington and Winchester can sell a few more guns and ammo.
     
  12. budlight

    budlight Well-Known Member

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    Abinok. I don't know the case capcity of all the short magnums. I do know that the 270 WSM can hold @10 more grains the standard win 270.

    I do now that when my now sold 7 mag was blowing the primers out, it's still 100-150 fps slower than a my 7stw and the 7 STW is not even stressing the cases. I do know that the same could be said about the 300 WM compared to the 300 ultra or my 30-378.

    So my point would be there is no real reason to buy a 7 mag or a 300 wm today.

    I also don't see higher BC in 7mm commom hunting bullets over the 30 cal. I only shoot 175 SBT's out of my 7STW. Sierra lists them at .533 The 200 grain 30 cal SBT is listed at .560 I'm pretty sure that the 30 Utra mags can get a 200 going the same velocity as a 175 grain 7mm

    So the 30 cal is a faster flater shooter than the 7mm