JLC precision

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by Jimm, Dec 21, 2005.

  1. Jimm

    Jimm Writers Guild

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    Hello all,

    I have a full length die converted to bushing style by Jim Carstenson . What is the best way to set this die up for minimal ( .001 ) setback of the shoulder ?

    Thanks , Jim
     
  2. abinok

    abinok Writers Guild

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    With a stony point headspace gauge, and careful small incrimental rotations of the die in the press.
    I posted this a few days ago elsewhere...
    on a 7/8x14 die adjusting it down will get you...
    1 turn .0714"
    1/2 turn .0356"
    1/4 turn .0178"
    1/8 turn .0089"
    1/16 turn .0044"
    1/32 turn .0022"
    1/64 turn .0011"

    1 thousandth is possible... but be very careful in adjusting when you get close... also, be very dilligent in lubing, or uneven lubrication will make it impossible to hold .001 of bump.
     

  3. Jimm

    Jimm Writers Guild

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    Hey Adam !

    Thanks for the reply. I was thinking of getting a Redding instant indicator. Would this work as well as the stoney point ?Also , what about a RCBS precision mic ?
     
  4. abinok

    abinok Writers Guild

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    Yep, the instant indicator works, but its restricted to fewer cases than the stony point version. The precision mic also works well... and it does oal measurements to the ogive as well. Again, the limitation is thats its more limited than the SP tools. Just different ways to skin the proverbial cat.
     
  5. dbhostler

    dbhostler Well-Known Member

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    Last FL button die I bought from Jim included his recommendation to set the die by pulling the firing pin and caming the bolt down on a resized fired case. When you notice slight resistance when the bolt is almost closed, you're there. The die can be adjusted according to caming effort. You can measure from the shoulder datum with your tools, but it really isn't necessary.
    db
     
  6. Jimm

    Jimm Writers Guild

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    DB

    Exactly what he told me , and good advice I'm sure. Just one thing though , how much is " slight resistance " /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

    I would really like a more readily reproducible measurement ? When you say that it is " not really necessary", I have to ask why not ?

    DB , I am not a high volume shooter and I am not involved in matches and I am not trying to pick a fight /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif However, this aspect should be given no less scrutiny .

    I don't think I am alone in this , but if so, so be it .What I want to know is what is the best way to quantify these measurements as best I can.

    As always , I thank each and everyone for there input on this .I am the dumb one here as I doing all the questioning /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

    Jim
     
  7. abinok

    abinok Writers Guild

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    I too hate the uncertanty of just tight enough...
    Loose primer pockets.... HOW LOOSE IS LOOSE????
    and on and on...
    I like to measure, because it takes most of the subjectiveness out of the equation. There are sooo many things that you can measure these days that you used to have to make subjective decisions on... bullet seating force, primer seating depth and pressure, even case head seperations!
    I like #s
    I tried the "close with slight pressure" thing for a while, and on some, it worked great, my old 243 for instance, but I found that I could get more consistant results with my calipers, than detecting the pressure required to turn my (un sprung) bolt with my finger.
    A lot of guys use that method, including the guy who built your die, so at any point feel free to plug your ears and run away Jim /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif Just what this country boy has found to work, and thats it.
    Oh, it should be noted that the really trick setup is to have your smith short chamber a barrel stub with your reamer so you can use the shoulder cut into your chamber, together with calipers to get your #. Ive only got 2 of these, and they aren't even for my guns! but they work well.
    This isn't for Winnie is it im hopeing?
     
  8. zingdingo

    zingdingo Well-Known Member

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    I too like the Stoney Point H&S gauge,
    now I bump my shoulders .001-.002 instead of ~.010-.011

    Barrel stub cut with the reamer would sure be nice too, but Remington hasn't been throwing that in recently for me, maybe I offended them or something.

    abinok, I sent you an email, sometimes hotmail puts my address into the spam box, so if you could look out for it I'd appreciate it (cdr165@psu.edu).

    Good day and merry Christmas to all,
    Carl
     
  9. jb1000br

    jb1000br Well-Known Member

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    Jim and AB -- i agree...dont like the "feel" method either.

    JB
     
  10. Derek M.

    Derek M. Well-Known Member

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    I bought the SP guage and didn't care for it. I noticed a bit of "play" sometimes on the brass and it wasn't set in the bushing completely concentric 100% of the time. Now and then I noticed it seemed off center, so I sent it back to Sinclair and got the RCBS Prec. Mic.

    Yet they cost about $33 each. I have found them to be more user friendly and more accurate for me, and certainly more consistent.
     
  11. dbhostler

    dbhostler Well-Known Member

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    No problem, to each his own. I must admit I too have a drawer full of mics, calipers, custom tools and measureing devices and have used them for years. But I have found when loading for a full blown custom rifle, like Chris Matthews builds, and setting the FL die to the chamber, I don't need to rely on measurement. Besides, when you get down to .001-.0001 most common loading tool measurements will be inconsistant anyway unless you true your cases and all dimensions are the same.
    I guess feel is a subjective thing. The more you do it, the better you develope it. I would also recommend you not set your shoulder back every reloading. If you have a custom chamber and a custom die then I would think setting back would defeat the cost of having such a quality piece. But then again, tinkering is half the fun of shooting, isn't it.
    Haved a blessed holiday.
    db
     
  12. Jimm

    Jimm Writers Guild

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    Db,

    I am in agreement with you on all you said. Reckon I did'nt want to develop that " feel " and don't trust myself to properly interpret the results if I try.

    With a custom rig like Chris Matthews builds I don't feel like I have to ( nor do I ) set the shoulder back after every firing . The 300 winnie he built for me is now on the 4th firing of a big lot of Lapua brass that is no more difficult to close the bolt than when I first begun. I have yet to use any other die on this brass than the Lee collet neck die ! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif TIR is still under 2 thou on all cases and under 1 thou on 90% of them.

    Thanks Db for your thoughts , they are much appreciated !

    May your celebration of the creators birth be a joyful and blessed one .

    Jim Brown
     
  13. robinstan

    robinstan Active Member

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    I am new to reloading and would like to know if this method would work with an rcbs full length die for setting the shoulder back the 0.001"? Also I've been reading where some people remove the expander from the die so it does not cause excessive run out to the neck and would that then rquire turning the neck down some to keep the tension on the bullet where it needs to be? Thanks
     
  14. dbhostler

    dbhostler Well-Known Member

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    You can set the shoulder back with a FL die, but you might consider a Redding Body Die. You can also adjust the shoulder and leave the neck alone by removing the button if you have a FL Bushing die.
    I personally don't care for expanders, too much potential for problems. I vary neck tension by the size of the button.
    If you want more information on these styles of dies you can visit their web site or go to www.sinclairintl.com.
    Hope this helps.
    db