IOR 3-18 x 42 Scope

[Sean K.]

Any idea on when this scope will be redesigned to cure the problems?

I have been reading and researching scopes until my eyes bleed for the last several weeks trying to find my first and hopefully last optic for my "long range" (for me) POF P-308 AR.

I initially planned to stay in the $600ish range for scopes.....and have since talked myself into spending $1500 if I must to get the features I want.

The problem is: the IOR FFP 3-18X42mm is the only scope that has everything I need/want for that price range and now it appears they are failure prone.

I've looked at the Horus Raptor as a second choice but frankly don't know if the H25 reticle will be too busy or if Horus is any good and for almost a grand, I'm not sure I want to be the test mule.

Any time frame on a redesign for the IOR FFP 3-18X42 would be appreciated.....Or, does anyone think that a .308/7.62x51 won't have enough recoil to damage the current generation of IOR FFP?

Thanks,
Sean

 

[ScottBerish]

Any idea on when this scope will be redesigned to cure the problems?

I have been reading and researching scopes until my eyes bleed for the last several weeks trying to find my first and hopefully last optic for my "long range" (for me) POF P-308 AR.

I initially planned to stay in the $600ish range for scopes.....and have since talked myself into spending $1500 if I must to get the features I want.

The problem is: the IOR FFP 3-18X42mm is the only scope that has everything I need/want for that price range and now it appears they are failure prone.

I've looked at the Horus Raptor as a second choice but frankly don't know if the H25 reticle will be too busy or if Horus is any good and for almost a grand, I'm not sure I want to be the test mule.

Any time frame on a redesign for the IOR FFP 3-18X42 would be appreciated.....Or, does anyone think that a .308/7.62x51 won't have enough recoil to damage the current generation of IOR FFP?

Thanks,
Sean

Sean,

The scope should be fine on a semi-auto .308. We REALLY have no idea of the mindset of the Romanian guys that are making this....but if they don't want to miss the chance to dominate the market at the price point, they better pay close attention.

Scott

 

[Sean K.]

Sean,

The scope should be fine on a semi-auto .308. We REALLY have no idea of the mindset of the Romanian guys that are making this....but if they don't want to miss the chance to dominate the market at the price point, they better pay close attention.

Scott

Ya, to be honest, the IOR is the scope I really want but for me $1500 is a LOT of money (and I realize that in the world of optics, it's really only a mid-range price) and I just can't chance buying a scope that has such a bad track record of breaking for that kind of money even though my automatic won't subject it to the shock levels of a bolt gun. Heck, I'm still unsure as to what about the recoil is breaking what part of the IOR scope.

Looking at the features I want: FFP, at least 14X max magnification, a 50mm objective (unless it has a 35mm body too, then the IOR 42mm would work), 30 mm body, side focus, reticles in the same numeric increments as the turrets (most likely a mil-dot or hash), and zero stop (negotiable)....the Horus Raptor looks like it's the one that's going to get my money but I still don't know if their optics are any good.

Everything else is missing some of these features or is a LOT more money.

I'm glad I found this thread just searching the net.....it's better to know about the problem before you buy than after. Wish I could find something posted by users more detailed about the Horus stuff.

If IOR had some sort of timetable for fixing the issue, I'd be tempted to wait for the next generation. As it is, I guess I'll have to pass.

Sean

 

[ScottBerish]

No probelm, your happiness is more important than my gains, and I've always been transparent with regard to anything I sell. If the scope holds together it is a market leader. For now it is an enigma.

Scott

Ya, to be honest, the IOR is the scope I really want but for me $1500 is a LOT of money (and I realize that in the world of optics, it's really only a mid-range price) and I just can't chance buying a scope that has such a bad track record of breaking for that kind of money even though my automatic won't subject it to the shock levels of a bolt gun. Heck, I'm still unsure as to what about the recoil is breaking what part of the IOR scope.

Looking at the features I want: FFP, at least 14X max magnification, a 50mm objective (unless it has a 35mm body too, then the IOR 42mm would work), 30 mm body, side focus, reticles in the same numeric increments as the turrets (most likely a mil-dot or hash), and zero stop (negotiable)....the Horus Raptor looks like it's the one that's going to get my money but I still don't know if their optics are any good.

Everything else is missing some of these features or is a LOT more money.

I'm glad I found this thread just searching the net.....it's better to know about the problem before you buy than after. Wish I could find something posted by users more detailed about the Horus stuff.

If IOR had some sort of timetable for fixing the issue, I'd be tempted to wait for the next generation. As it is, I guess I'll have to pass.

Sean

 

[Sean K.]

No probelm, your happiness is more important than my gains, and I've always been transparent with regard to anything I sell. If the scope holds together it is a market leader. For now it is an enigma.

Scott

Well, you may not be out of the woods just yet. I contacted Horus Vision today about their scopes and the Raptor I'm looking at only has a 1 year warranty! I expected the industry standard limited lifetime on mfg. defects.

What's your honest assessment of the IOR FFP 3-18X42 on a .308 AR platform? Think it'll hold up? I assume the IOR is lifetime warranty, correct?

Thanks,
Sean

 

[ScottBerish]

Yeah, lifetime warranty, it should be fine on a gas gun. Especially the soft shooting AR. I can not recall one failure of one on an AR.

Still, I can not make any assurances. You have a 1 in 10 chance of being unhappy. Feel lucky?

 

[Jon A]

Val has sent your three letters to the IOR factory along with a letter himself. He is as upset and embarased by this as anyone, and for good reason.

That's good to hear.

He would like to know how the S&B holds up to your rifle, please report back in periodically. If your S&B holds up for awhile, he will sahre that with the grunts overseas too.

It has about 60 rounds on my 300 so far, which is about when the 2nd one went and more than either the first or third took before they broke. I'll keep track and keep you updated, but I really don't expect any problems. Yes, my rifle kicks really, really hard and so if a scope is flawed or not recoil tolerent, it will expose it very quickly; but of course we all agree it shouldn't be a problem for any good scope, much less a $1500 Tactical scope. The two other IORs (2.5-10 and 4-14) both survived hundreds of rounds without breaking on the same rifle, as did the two Leupolds before that.

It'll be interesting to hear what the factory says. Though I must say, I feel like they've blown smoke up my *** once already so I'm not sure how much it'll matter.

He does want thie 3-18 scope to work.

And that's the sad part, so do I. I don't know what I'm going to do, things would be much more simple if I was really blown away by the S&B, so happy with it I could just eat the extra money, know it will last and be done with it. But I'm not, I miss the 3-18. Don't get me wrong, the S&B 3-12 is a fantastic scope but so is the 3-18.

If I had to pick one scope to face the end of the world with, the 3-12 would be right at the top of the list. But I'm not. For my uses I actually liked the 3-18 better in many ways. Of course the big one is the glass/magnification range. After getting used to 18X IOR glass on that rifle, 12X just won't make me happy, even if it is S&B glass. Actually I'm not yet convinced the S&B glass is any better on the same power level so it certainly can't make up for lack of magnification against it as it can against other brands. If I could just crank it up to 18X I could probably live with all the other nits just fine and be happy with it.

In retrospect I probably would have been happier with the 4-16 and that would be a more fair comparison. It would be down a bit on each end but it might be close enough. But it's a lot bigger which was something I wanted to avoid. But the 3-12 was available for a pretty good deal and certainly a "safe" choice so I jumped on it. And like I said, it's a fantastic scope, I've just been spoiled by the 3-18. It'll be hard to get over that. So as nice as the 3-12 is, I don't like it enough to keep it around for nearly $3K. I might check out the new Premier when it comes out, or if I stick to S&B swap the 3-12 for a 4-16 to see if I like it well enough to keep it. Maybe NF will keep their prices reasonable on the FFP to the point I'd consider one of those.

Hell if I know. If I had never used the 3-18 I'd be a whole lot easier to please, I know that much. I'll have to think on things for a while. While I don't think I want to keep the 3-12 forever, it is reassuring to know I have it and could head out the door tomorrow and go hunting with it if I needed to and it would do anything I could reasonably ask of it. It is a hell of a scope. I guess I'm just being finicky.

 

[Sean K.]

Yeah, lifetime warranty, it should be fine on a gas gun. Especially the soft shooting AR. I can not recall one failure of one on an AR.

Still, I can not make any assurances. You have a 1 in 10 chance of being unhappy. Feel lucky?

Hmmm....I usually have horrible luck, so not really. Does it matter that my .308 is a gas piston instead of a direct impingement AR? I know some people claim the recoil is higher on the GP, but this thing has super low recoil IMO.

Sean

 

[ScottBerish]

Hmmm....I usually have horrible luck, so not really. Does it matter that my .308 is a gas piston instead of a direct impingement AR? I know some people claim the recoil is higher on the GP, but this thing has super low recoil IMO.

Sean

I would think it would be fine. Especially the latest models.

However, we have one refurb Gen I that has been through the factory rebuild, with full warranty, for $1295 with rings.

Worth a shot?

Scott

 

[ScottBerish]

That's good to hear.

It has about 60 rounds on my 300 so far, which is about when the 2nd one went and more than either the first or third took before they broke. I'll keep track and keep you updated, but I really don't expect any problems. Yes, my rifle kicks really, really hard and so if a scope is flawed or not recoil tolerent, it will expose it very quickly; but of course we all agree it shouldn't be a problem for any good scope, much less a $1500 Tactical scope. The two other IORs (2.5-10 and 4-14) both survived hundreds of rounds without breaking on the same rifle, as did the two Leupolds before that.

It'll be interesting to hear what the factory says. Though I must say, I feel like they've blown smoke up my *** once already so I'm not sure how much it'll matter.

And that's the sad part, so do I. I don't know what I'm going to do, things would be much more simple if I was really blown away by the S&B, so happy with it I could just eat the extra money, know it will last and be done with it. But I'm not, I miss the 3-18. Don't get me wrong, the S&B 3-12 is a fantastic scope but so is the 3-18.

If I had to pick one scope to face the end of the world with, the 3-12 would be right at the top of the list. But I'm not. For my uses I actually liked the 3-18 better in many ways. Of course the big one is the glass/magnification range. After getting used to 18X IOR glass on that rifle, 12X just won't make me happy, even if it is S&B glass. Actually I'm not yet convinced the S&B glass is any better on the same power level so it certainly can't make up for lack of magnification against it as it can against other brands. If I could just crank it up to 18X I could probably live with all the other nits just fine and be happy with it.

In retrospect I probably would have been happier with the 4-16 and that would be a more fair comparison. It would be down a bit on each end but it might be close enough. But it's a lot bigger which was something I wanted to avoid. But the 3-12 was available for a pretty good deal and certainly a "safe" choice so I jumped on it. And like I said, it's a fantastic scope, I've just been spoiled by the 3-18. It'll be hard to get over that. So as nice as the 3-12 is, I don't like it enough to keep it around for nearly $3K. I might check out the new Premier when it comes out, or if I stick to S&B swap the 3-12 for a 4-16 to see if I like it well enough to keep it. Maybe NF will keep their prices reasonable on the FFP to the point I'd consider one of those.

Hell if I know. If I had never used the 3-18 I'd be a whole lot easier to please, I know that much. I'll have to think on things for a while. While I don't think I want to keep the 3-12 forever, it is reassuring to know I have it and could head out the door tomorrow and go hunting with it if I needed to and it would do anything I could reasonably ask of it. It is a hell of a scope. I guess I'm just being finicky.

Keep us posted on the S&B, round count, etc. I've never known Val to send any customer letters to the factory, I think he is challenging their manhood! Romanian style.

Scott

 

[katigroszek]

[...]In retrospect I probably would have been happier with the 4-16 and that would be a more fair comparison. It would be down a bit on each end but it might be close enough. But it's a lot bigger which was something I wanted to avoid. [...] if I stick to S&B swap the 3-12 for a 4-16 to see if I like it well enough to keep it. [...]

I do not now if it is available in the US and for how much money - European optics tend to cost much less in the States, I do not know why - but the Hensoldt 4-16x56 is much smaller not only than a S&B PM II 4-16x50 but compared to a 3-12x50 too!

http://hpbimg.i-e-a.de/Grosenvergleich_50_56ZF.jpg

It has a FFP version and over here (actually in Germany) it is some 2200 Euro new. Downside - modified mil-dot recticle only. Hensold is really a military Zeiss branch, so optics should be first class. Bigger bell should help in low light hunting. They also make a huge bell tactical scope 6-24x72 for very low light work. Price tag is huge also (some 2800 Euro ).

 

[Sean K.]

I would think it would be fine. Especially the latest models.

However, we have one refurb Gen I that has been through the factory rebuild, with full warranty, for $1295 with rings.

Worth a shot?

Scott

Possibly....let me give it some more thought.

Sean

PS. don't hold it for me though.....if someone comes ready to buy....sell it.

I got some commentary on the true quality of the Horus scopes yesterday and has me rethinking them at all. IOR is still my favorite, but I emailed NightForce last night to see when their FFP NXS scopes are due to be released.

 

[ScottBerish]

I do not now if it is available in the US and for how much money - European optics tend to cost much less in the States, I do not know why - but the Hensoldt 4-16x56 is much smaller not only than a S&B PM II 4-16x50 but compared to a 3-12x50 too!

http://hpbimg.i-e-a.de/Grosenvergleich_50_56ZF.jpg

It has a FFP version and over here (actually in Germany) it is some 2200 Euro new. Downside - modified mil-dot recticle only. Hensold is really a military Zeiss branch, so optics should be first class. Bigger bell should help in low light hunting. They also make a huge bell tactical scope 6-24x72 for very low light work. Price tag is huge also (some 2800 Euro ).

Hensoldt just plays games with us. Every year, they come over for SHOT to show off their goodies, and every year, no distributor is found. They are not serious about exporting their scopes. They just come over here to whoop it up on the company's dime.

We've finally caught on to them, it just took a few years

Scott

 

[Pdvdh]

Hensoldt just plays games with us. Every year, they come over for SHOT to show off their goodies, and every year, no distributor is found. They are not serious about exporting their scopes. They just come over here to whoop it up on the company's dime.

We've finally caught on to them, it just took a few years

Scott

Good to know. I was considering posting to see who knew what about the Hensoldt company and their scopes. Sounds like a write-off until they team up with a USA distributor.