"Inherently more accurate"

[30BR]

I dont think either by virtue of case is more accurate. The 6.5 creed was introduced with relatively inexpensive, match ammo that is more accurate than the hunting ammo u find for the 260. Hand load your own best loads i do t believe you would find a diff. The shooters in south africa love the the 260 and let me tell you they shoot groups tat would impress any one! And the 26p has some ballistic advantage! Just my thoughts.

The 6.5 CM was designed specifically for Across the Course competition, which is shot at 200/300 and 600 yards, with iron sights, with and without a sling. That's what it does best. The case size, (based on the 30TC), neck length and throat are all maximized for mid weight to heavy bullets. Will a 260 eek out a few more fps? Yep. Is it used in competition? Nope.

 

[Rich Coyle]

Not knocking br 1000yd stuff, but I think this video shows that the shooters form might not be the deciding factor This is what makes me think the cartridges get tested for inherent accuracy in their sport.

That is a very fun video.

 

[30BR]

I think we can say that's a pretty darn accurate cartridge...

 

[adam32]

I think we can say that's a pretty darn accurate cartridge...

What's the specs on the rifle? Bullet? Rest?

 

[30BR]

What's the specs on the rifle? Bullet? Rest?

Round
Bullet: 103g Vapor Trail
Brass: Lapua
Powder: Hodgdon H4895
Primer: CCI 450 (small rifle magnum)
Rifle
Action: BAT 'B' 1.550 Melonited Action with Jewell Trigger
Barrel: Brux HV 28″ Finished Length, 1:8″ Twist Rate
Chambering: 6BRAW (6mmBR Ackley Improved Wilson), Chambered by Darrell Jones
Chamber Specs: 0.272″ No-turn Neck with 0.135″ Freebore
Stock: Shehane ST 1000 Fiberglass Stock (with stock work by Larry "Bullet" Archer)
Optics: Nightforce 12-42x56mm Benchrest NP-2 DD
Weight: 16 pounds, 2 ounces.
Front rest looks to be a home-made one, and the rear bag looks like a Protector DR. bag.

 

[Canhunter35]

Here is another way to say it. We all agree that some shooters are better than others. We all agree that some equipment is built better than other equipment.
Why is it so difficult to believe that a case design is any different?
Lets take an internal combustion engine. Do all engines with the same displacement run the same? Do they run on the same fuel?
Here is some proof of what Im saying and others that have built them will agree.
My long action 338 Sherman and 338 SS are very close to the same capacity and will reach close to the same velocity, although the ss has a little edge based on less capacity. The long action round prefers the slowest powder you can feed it and the SS prefers much faster powder. If I ran Varget in my Long action at the same charge I put in my SS, it would blow the primer clear out of the case. So if internal ballistics are that complex, does it not make sense that one just might be more efficient/consistent and possibly have better accuracy because of it.

I thought this should be repeated. It's in such simple logical terms

 

[Stgraves260]

I see this term tossed around a lot, especially in any of the many 260 vrs the 6.5 CM threads. It probably comes up in the .243 vrs 6 CM too. I don't know as I don't own either. If you built a 30 CM or a 7mm CM would it be more accurate than a 308 or a 7mm/08? If the CM case design is "inherently more accurate" wouldn't it be?

Can someone define this please? Not looking for opinions, just facts. Using the 260/6.5 CM as examples. Has anyone built two rifles as identical as they can be, found the best loads for both and has the data to back up the 'inherently more accurate" statement? Has the data been verified with other identical (as can be) rifles? Say, 600 yards.

I'm not looking for a debate, argument or you can buy ammo at your local quick stop type replies. There are other post where you can do that.

BTW, I have a 260 but I don't think it's better than a CM but I also don't think it gives up anything either. My rig is a deer rifle, 22" pencil barrel, personally I don't think deer, coyotes or groundhogs can tell the difference.

So, if someone has some data based on testing that defines what makes one cartridge "inherently more accurate" than another cartridge please post it up.

Thanks, Justin

This is 3 targets at 100 - 500 yards away from a 260 Rem. I have a 6.5CM also. It's accurate but just a lot slower. My 260 Rem 140 grain Berger's are pushing just over 3000 FPS. My 6.5 CM with same 140 grain Berger and same powder I'm under 2750 FPS w/ no better accuracy. I do hand load though. I guess the only advantage the CM has over the 260 Rem is factory ammo availability.

 

[26Reload]

Obviously we all have our own slants as to how to "make the rifle more accurate"....no doubts there....some people may reload far better than others...some people may be way better marksmen(or women) than a lot of people.....but putting this all into simple text...if a person can walk into a store get a rifle walk over to the ammo and buy boxes from several makers....then take all that to the range and shoot better groups without anything done to the rifle other than adjusting sites..... "that is what i would have to consider 'inherently more accurate' ".....i have never been able to produce better than average accuracy from anything I have purchased...and being this is all factory....handloading could only make it better....

 

[Andrew Cowling]

I see this term tossed around a lot, especially in any of the many 260 vrs the 6.5 CM threads. It probably comes up in the .243 vrs 6 CM too. I don't know as I don't own either. If you built a 30 CM or a 7mm CM would it be more accurate than a 308 or a 7mm/08? If the CM case design is "inherently more accurate" wouldn't it be?

Can someone define this please? Not looking for opinions, just facts. Using the 260/6.5 CM as examples. Has anyone built two rifles as identical as they can be, found the best loads for both and has the data to back up the 'inherently more accurate" statement? Has the data been verified with other identical (as can be) rifles? Say, 600 yards.

I'm not looking for a debate, argument or you can buy ammo at your local quick stop type replies. There are other post where you can do that.

BTW, I have a 260 but I don't think it's better than a CM but I also don't think it gives up anything either. My rig is a deer rifle, 22" pencil barrel, personally I don't think deer, coyotes or groundhogs can tell the difference.

So, if someone has some data based on testing that defines what makes one cartridge "inherently more accurate" than another cartridge please post it up.

Thanks, Justin

Both built for a purpose. I have built both for clients or myself. The 6.5 Creedmore is a 260 remington wanna be at a lot higher pressure than the 260. Accurate is accurate and to say one is better than the other is trash talk.
I am still finding the sweet spot on my new 260 with 136 gr lapua scenar L projectile. 3 shots in .320 inch at 200 metres ( thats about 218 yards) is pretty accurate to me.

 

[mark223]

We need all kinds of shooters. The bench rest crowd are the gurus of the MECHANICAL side of shooting. Especially the "rail-gun" types because they are the ones who develop and test the caliber, bullets, case designs, powders, internal, external and terminal ballistics (on and on) of the firearms we current have and the wildcats that will become standards of the future. Then the more practical shooters will test the reliability of the designs. How well they function in full auto, hot and cold weather, sandy, icy, dry and wet environments that the military and hunters will use them in. Then the engineers and bean counters who see how economical they will be to produce followed by the generals and civilians who study exactly how much it cost to produce the product. So everybody, including us armchair experts who discuss all this with little of no actual knowledge of the overall product. BUT, I think we have the most fun arguing and speculating than the rest of the herd! I do at least.

 

[Eric Alexander]

I see this term tossed around a lot, especially in any of the many 260 vrs the 6.5 CM threads. It probably comes up in the .243 vrs 6 CM too. I don't know as I don't own either. If you built a 30 CM or a 7mm CM would it be more accurate than a 308 or a 7mm/08? If the CM case design is "inherently more accurate" wouldn't it be?

Can someone define this please? Not looking for opinions, just facts. Using the 260/6.5 CM as examples. Has anyone built two rifles as identical as they can be, found the best loads for both and has the data to back up the 'inherently more accurate" statement? Has the data been verified with other identical (as can be) rifles? Say, 600 yards.

I'm not looking for a debate, argument or you can buy ammo at your local quick stop type replies. There are other post where you can do that.

BTW, I have a 260 but I don't think it's better than a CM but I also don't think it gives up anything either. My rig is a deer rifle, 22" pencil barrel, personally I don't think deer, coyotes or groundhogs can tell the difference.

So, if someone has some data based on testing that defines what makes one cartridge "inherently more accurate" than another cartridge please post it up.

Thanks, Justin

Your conclusions are all dead on. Your .260 gives up nothing. But
load either one well, with good brass, and chamber them in a tight, straight rifle and they will both generate equally tight groups ..at virtually equal speeds. Good brass critical for consistency. (Nice that Lapua is making .260 brass.)

 

[Darrel]

All I know is after sighting in 3 TC Compass 6.5 CM rifles and a Bergara 6.5 CM they all shoot reloads moa with no fuss. 41.5 gr H4350/143 ELD-X
I still struggle with 6.5 PRC, 7mm Rem Mag, 308, 35 Whelen. All bullet and powder money pits compared to the CM. I love to shoot them all but hunt with the CM

 

[Capt RB]

This Bart's 600yd target shot with a 6mmBRA which is just Ackley improved vs pushing the shoulder forward like the dasher.

I've read he is running a 6mm grinch which is a 6.5 Grendel case necked down and blown out with a 40-degree shoulder. I know the Fat Rat and Robert Whitley's 6mm ar turbo moved it forward .075. Bart claims it can run with a PPC with the small bullets in a 12 to.
One thing that is common to the records is steeper than 20-degree shoulders.
One thing that is making waves in ELR is structured barrels and sleeved barrels. These deaden the harmonics as well as mitigate heat which helps throat wear. When you watch a guy shoot an ar on full auto then put his finger in the chamber he's onto something that will catch on. Just the heat mitigation should have the long-range crowd interested. Besides who would want wide nodes to load too? The load tinkerer would have to shoot instead of tweak their loads missing events or hunting with something he would have upgraded

 

[Hawkeye Pierce]

Between the CM and. 260 your biggest benefit for the CM is factory ammo if you're not a reloading. The. 260 wins out in reloading, not a lot of good factory ammo. And by wins i mean marginal FPS increase, accuracy will depend upon setup and shooter more than just the round. That's why you were asking for a duplicate set up of the 2, unfortunately I don't think anyone would spend the money on a rifle build with no real benefit.