You have brought it to light for me. So I will take a long look at weight verse volume. I will developing new loads for a wildcat round. Everything from the start. Changing out my present reloading equipment to top end equipment. Adding Lapua, and Peterson brass to the loading process. I will also try other brass to compare too. Never to late to learn something new.
How does brass affect accuracy?
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DartonJager
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Being I am going to start off with a new case and caliber to me. I will do testing to see how volume to weight create differences between the two. The things today is getting the components needed to make the comparson. So I am buying out in front of me. I have always loaded for tight grouping and velocity. If the groups are much larger than 1/2". I change items until I get what I want. Some rifles, I never could get the groups, but most I did. Most of the rifle that I couldn't get to group were somebody else rifle. I probable wouldn't have purchase that rifle to start with. It's hard to make a silk purse out of a sow ear.
Patriot007
Well-Known Member
SHOOOEEEEEE!!!,,, I know how that taste. I don't know if you read this post yet. It's concurrent,,, Check it out,.
Quantitative analysis of brass volume, weight, and velocity.
See this thread for what motivated me to undertake this. https://www.longrangehunting.com/threads/0-03-growth-after-first-fire-264wm-ww-brass.254927/ Short story, had some extremely undersized virgin brass, and wanted to determine how this would affect processing and load development. There is...
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Patriot007
Well-Known Member
Sorry, Tony, I got taken away last night when replying to your post, and had to end it real guick. "work", But, I just wanted to say. I agree 100% with your post. In the end game, it's all about eliminating variables, and putting that bullet on target. The fun was the adventure in getting there. So, I'm told.
lol, You must go that extra mile, or it will show up on target.,,,,
Savage 12BVSS
Well-Known Member
The main variables that cause differences in weight from case to case are as follows:
That's right – the main contributors to weight variances don't have anything to do with internal volume consistency.
The more accurate, and tedious, way to measure internal volume is by volumetric water testing. But even then, if the meniscus isn't identical each time, you can still have a reading that is off by as much as a grain.
Here at Peterson Cartridge we are acutely aware of the relationship between consistent internal volume and consistent shot placement. And we are told by extreme long-range shooters that our consistency is among the best.
Some of our competitors weight sort their casings as they come off the line. This ensures that the casings you receive have the most consistent weight from case to case. If that was one of the relevant factors to putting multiple bullets in the same hole we would do it also. But it is not.
If you'd like to prove this to yourself, try a box of our casings. Load and shoot them. Chronograph your muzzle velocities. Measure how tight your pattern is at the target. We believe you'll be very happy with your results. Why? Because of extremely consistent Internal Volumes.
Thought I'd post this up for your reading pleasure Posted by Peterson Brass on the beginning of their website. Seems to be a weight vs volume statement from one of the better brass producers out there and would be worth pondering. Its funny but I still prefer lapua brass myself cause once I develop a load with specific powder charge as part of it, the thought of changing brass never appeals to me. The very fact any brass company produces a given box of 100 with such a small deviation in weight tells me that their process doesn't have a lot of drastic weight differences batch to batch and is a good product to build on. Plus I really like those plastic cartridge boxes............ Spoken like a true yank I guess
- Material removed when cutting in the extraction groove.
- External head thickness
- Head diameter
- Sectional density of the webbing (the base of the casing)
That's right – the main contributors to weight variances don't have anything to do with internal volume consistency.
The more accurate, and tedious, way to measure internal volume is by volumetric water testing. But even then, if the meniscus isn't identical each time, you can still have a reading that is off by as much as a grain.
Here at Peterson Cartridge we are acutely aware of the relationship between consistent internal volume and consistent shot placement. And we are told by extreme long-range shooters that our consistency is among the best.
Some of our competitors weight sort their casings as they come off the line. This ensures that the casings you receive have the most consistent weight from case to case. If that was one of the relevant factors to putting multiple bullets in the same hole we would do it also. But it is not.
If you'd like to prove this to yourself, try a box of our casings. Load and shoot them. Chronograph your muzzle velocities. Measure how tight your pattern is at the target. We believe you'll be very happy with your results. Why? Because of extremely consistent Internal Volumes.
Thought I'd post this up for your reading pleasure
Posted by Peterson Brass on the beginning of their website. Seems to be a weight vs volume statement from one of the better brass producers out there and would be worth pondering. Its funny but I still prefer lapua brass myself cause once I develop a load with specific powder charge as part of it, the thought of changing brass never appeals to me. The very fact any brass company produces a given box of 100 with such a small deviation in weight tells me that their process doesn't have a lot of drastic weight differences batch to batch and is a good product to build on. Plus I really like those plastic cartridge boxes............ Spoken like a true yank I guess Thanks for the input, and increasing my knowledge. I use case weight for years, and now I am going to change. I don't fully know just how I going to do this, but I figure it out.The main variables that cause differences in weight from case to case are as follows:
Notice what each of these have in common? They don't relate to internal volume.
- Material removed when cutting in the extraction groove.
- External head thickness
- Head diameter
- Sectional density of the webbing (the base of the casing)
That's right – the main contributors to weight variances don't have anything to do with internal volume consistency.
The more accurate, and tedious, way to measure internal volume is by volumetric water testing. But even then, if the meniscus isn't identical each time, you can still have a reading that is off by as much as a grain.
Here at Peterson Cartridge we are acutely aware of the relationship between consistent internal volume and consistent shot placement. And we are told by extreme long-range shooters that our consistency is among the best.
Some of our competitors weight sort their casings as they come off the line. This ensures that the casings you receive have the most consistent weight from case to case. If that was one of the relevant factors to putting multiple bullets in the same hole we would do it also. But it is not.
If you'd like to prove this to yourself, try a box of our casings. Load and shoot them. Chronograph your muzzle velocities. Measure how tight your pattern is at the target. We believe you'll be very happy with your results. Why? Because of extremely consistent Internal Volumes.
Thought I'd post this up for your reading pleasure
Savage 12BVSS
Well-Known Member
Well ya know Mike, I've weighed brass for years and its such a part of my loading regime that I will continue to weight sort brass anyway. It just isn't the important step I use to feel it was, but still a step none the less. It does show you how uniform the maker is at making their brass. After that statement by Peterson they still offer select brass thats weight and length sorted for a higher price. I find I'm pretty much getting that already with lapua. Far as primer flash hole being punched I don't care as long as it don't leave any brass buggers to have to deal with I do hate that inside bevel or chamfer that norma does, they aren't uniform case to case. I'll do my own small chamfer as part of my case prep. I also love how long primer pockets stay tight as I don't ever load anything except on the higher nodes
I do hate that inside bevel or chamfer that norma does, they aren't uniform case to case. I'll do my own small chamfer as part of my case prep. I also love how long primer pockets stay tight as I don't ever load anything except on the higher nodes
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Guess I'm stuck in my ways.i know the above, but still do it all anyway. Carry over from my benchrest days.
Patriot007
Well-Known Member
I know, weighing cases is a large part part of our Reloading DNA. Will I stop weighing??? No,,,, My, madness, seems to be working for me down range, on TARGET. I LIKE to think Physics, are on my side, not luck. But, when it comes to POI on the X-RING, WE TAKE WHAT WE GET, AND WE WEIGH CASES. I can't group them if I don't weigh them.. I To am looking for a better method/reason to sort my cases. Listening to the case manufactory is like listening to the DNC.Well ya know Mike, I've weighed brass for years and its such a part of my loading regime that I will continue to weight sort brass anyway. It just isn't the important step I use to feel it was, but still a step none the less. It does show you how uniform the maker is at making their brass. After that statement by Peterson they still offer select brass thats weight and length sorted for a higher price. I find I'm pretty much getting that already with lapua. Far as primer flash hole being punched I don't care as long as it don't leave any brass buggers to have to deal with
Lapua brass has proven to be my case of choice. More case capacity when fire formed, and the longest primer pocket life on the market. That's a win, win, with proper annealing.
I presently have both Lapua, and Peterson brass on my desk, and trying to get some additional 280 IA case built by Peterson. I check all flash holes to start with. I am having a 6mm-280AI rifle being built. So I am changing my practices on reloading and adding step to it. The people on Long Range Shooting have been good to talk to and getting info from.Well ya know Mike, I've weighed brass for years and its such a part of my loading regime that I will continue to weight sort brass anyway. It just isn't the important step I use to feel it was, but still a step none the less. It does show you how uniform the maker is at making their brass. After that statement by Peterson they still offer select brass thats weight and length sorted for a higher price. I find I'm pretty much getting that already with lapua. Far as primer flash hole being punched I don't care as long as it don't leave any brass buggers to have to deal with
Patriot007
Well-Known Member
Have you noticed a case volume difference between Lapua and Peterson in fire formed state, in the 280AI???
I can only speak about it, in the 6.5CM caliber experiments, that I have done with my rifles. Lapua holds more powder
than Peterson in the 6.5CM cases, and I was just wondering if that held TRUE with other calibers, as well.
I am presently in the process of having a 6mm-280AI being built. I haven't gotten that far yet. At best it will be 6 months before I start shooting that rifle. I will keep it in mine. I have placed that into my log for the new rifle to check.
