horizonal stringing

[Boss Hoss]

Boss, before you get all bent out of shape lets take a step back. The OP is asking about why a reload is acting such a way. We all know that there could be dozens of reasons that he is getting a certain result. This could include anything from form to equipment. However, for some variables we have to give him the benefit of the doubt. For example, his ability to shoot. the OP is getting a horizontal deviation of approximately .5 inches at 100yds. He needs to have some shooting ability to even achieve this much precision. Not every Johnny can put five in under a half inch at a hunsky or every rifle for that matter. From there we move to the next possible cause. Perhaps its his rifle or his reloads. Where would I begin? Well thats the advice given. Backwoods was right in his evaluation as well. The OP was not asking about vertical but horizontal. If that stirs your pot the wrong way I'm sorry, but the attitude and criticism is not needed.

Sorry but you are not really all that up to speed with what happens when shooting at the bench --- it is not your fault because by looking at your previous post it would seem to me that you are a relatively casual shooter. When it comes to evaluating a load if you are not doing the things posted above as well as others that lead up to the actual pulling of the trigger you are leaving accuracy potential on the table.

No attitude here just giving facts-----been there done that and have many skins and a few points on the wall.

 

[Firecat]

No apology needed Hoss. There will always be more for one to learn and it is a large part of why I visit this sight and others. I never disagreed with your thoughts of what happens behind the trigger. I realize that it makes a huge contribution to the whole picture. I just did not appreciate the lashing out or hotty stance. Don't look down on another simply because of their different/lack of experiences. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and that does not make it right, wrong or better than another's simply because it is theirs. All differences aside. I hope your future is as bright as your past.

 

[Boss Hoss]

Understood HOWEVER I WAS ONCE IN THE OP's SHOES! Did not have friends who are in the industry and shoot to help me when I was first getting serious about accuracy. Will tell you this---had to unlearn a few things that I would have sworn made no difference or sworn made a difference that hurt my shooting. Am speaking about the actual rifle, equipment, loading and associated techniques and most importantly the entire process of shooting the rifle and judging condition.

Have had the opportunity to see at least 100 rifles built by my mentor and have been fortunate to pick up a thing or two. My motto is the same as Speedy's "Winning Isn't Everything But Loosing Sucks!" Always have fun and cut up and joke more than anyone but when I am on the line --- serious as a heart attack!

 

[backwoods83]

well i wasn't trying to get everyones panties in a twist, just trying to get the right answer for the guy. And no you're correct i am no perfessional by far but i got a good teacher i think, he won the IBS championship in 09 and the first time i sat at the bench trying to see the targets at 1k it was a little intimidating, i was shooting a box stock savage f-class 6.5x284, with my reloads, off his rest, with a 12-42 nightforce, but when I shot an 8.054" group in the second relay i didn't feel so bad about second place outta 10 when i was up against others that had been doing it for 10+ years, so im not guite as ignorant as some may think. Sorry for the stir up.




'

 

[Long Trang]

cooled down the barrel and shot another five same result.

Unless I'm gravely mistaken, I think our friend already answered his own question.

If after allowing the barrel to cool, his 'result' was another 1/2" horizontal string of 5 shots...just like before? Or did shots #6-10 lay an additional 1/2" string ontop of the first 5...making a full inch?

 

[davewilson]

he said he's shooting a new gun. the action and barrel probably haven't been trued. my guess is the shoulder of the barrel is only hitting on one side of the receiver causing the barrel, and the bullet impact, to shake sideways.

 

[Long Trang]

Possible solution

Billy,

It's been my experience (and many others as well) that, whenever dealing with a malfunction...be it your car, your stereo or tv, any mechanical device... 9 times out of 10, it's something simple, cheap and petty. People are so eager to 'jump the gun' and assume it's something terribly expensive and complex, when often it is not.

Based on what you described, it sounds like you were firing too fast; not allowing your barrel to cool and maintain cold bore shots. Before going out and spending heaps of money on things you may or may not need, check to make sure this isn't one of those '9 out of 10' cases.

Take your weapon back to the range and fire the exact same way you did before EXCEPT, wait a couple minutes in between shots this time. If you still get the stringing, then you really haven't lost anything and continue your search. If you don't get the stringing....

Good luck.

 

[davewilson]

Long Trang, not trying to be confrontational, but what does waiting a couple minutes between shots accomplish? it doesn't fix anything. he wants to know what the problem might be, not how to work around it.

 

[Long Trang]

Originally Posted by bcwhit
cooled down the barrel and shot another five same result.

He's firing a new rifle. It's more likely that he's firing too fast, thereby heating up the barrel and changing his POI. He indicated he let the barrel cool and it happened again. Each time he fired, his barrel heated more, thereby changing his POI more. That is why the consistant distance in POI's in his string.

If he had a different problem with his rifle, his POI wouldn't likely be so consistant and it certainly wouldn't recreate the same result after simply letting it cool. Typically, with another problem that altered his barrel harmonics, the grouping would be in random directions and not in a string.

Even if it's not from thermal changes in the barrel, it sure couldn't hurt for him to attempt to eliminate the cheapest and most likely possibility, could it?

 

[davewilson]

my point is if you have a rifle that changes POI when you fire a few times, shooting it is not the problem. there is stress on the action/barrel causing this and the fix is not to shoot with much more time in between shots. a gun that does this isn't any good for anything. you couldn't use this gun for Law enforcement, competition, or hunting. the problem is it changes POI when it heats up. this is a metal and or bedding issue. shooting slower has nothing to do with fixing the problem. it simply is a way to work around it. IMHO just not a justified way of dealing with it.

 

[Loner]

Long Trang was merely stating a way of discerning what the problem was, not a work
a round. And I still don't see why anyone here things a box stock 700 should shoot
better than 1/2 inch? That is a good shooting gun and shouldn't be fooled with unless
he wants to go for broke.

 

[Long Trang]

DaveWilson,

Let's look at it this way. It's a brand new, out-of-the-box rifle...standard, not trued, tactical, or special in any way. Ok, at 100 yards, the rifle lays a string of 5 rounds that is approximately 1/2" in length. We're talking a hair over a 16th of an inch misplacement per shot and in the same direction.

And, you may be correct; there could be a bit of stress on the barrel due to improper bedding, etc. But, the big clue here is the consistant and compiled effect on his POI. Each time he fired, the POI changed an additional 1/16th". That has got to be from thermal variations...fair enough...possibly combined with a wee bit of stress on the barrel.

If the OP was to take the rifle out again...firing only after waiting a couple minutes per shot, he would be firing cold bore shots (eliminating any possibility of thermal shift) and should maintain a consistant zero. If so, then he'll know it's merely a thermal issue altering his harmonics. In that case, if this is to be used as a hunting rifle, he's going to be hunting cold bore anyway. So, he attains his zero (based on cold bore shots) and he's good to go.

 

[davewilson]

i wouldn't argue that a 1/2 moa gun is a good shooting hunting rifle. i seriously dought this gun is. not to split hairs but each bullet would move 1/8", not a 1/16th, but you don't know that each bullet went right beside the next. my main point is shooting bullets well spaced apart is just a very poor way to deal with this scenario.if that's the way you see it, that's your prerogative. just watch the 1k crowd hammer 10 shots out in well under a minute,most close to 30 seconds. or when you hit a deer and he's hobbling away, shots are banging out of this gun trying to get another hole in him and when the dust clears, you say, oh yeah, i forgot, after 3 shots, my gun hits an inch to the left and at 800, that's at least 8". again, i just don't find your reasoning of how to deal with this acceptable for me. i'm not saying you're wrong, i just don't agree.

 

[Long Trang]

Ok. I'll try one final time.

i wouldn't argue that a 1/2 moa gun is a good shooting hunting rifle. i seriously dought this gun is. not to split hairs but each bullet would move 1/8",

That is better than a 1/2 moa gun. Evidently, you even agree, the bullet strikes are 1/8" apart at 100....even with a problem.

All I'm suggesting is for the OP to take the cheapest and most likely course of action to eliminate the possibility of the problem being caused by thermal variations. If he takes it to the range, cold bore shoots and discovers the POI no longer drifts, he's discovered the problem is barrel heating. If it still drifts, then he knows it's something else.

Kinda like...say you decide to go drinking tonight. And you drink pretty heavily. Tomorrow morning, you wake up with a splitting headache and you're sick. Are you going to assume you have a malignant brain tumor? Of course not, you're gonna say, "****! I drank too much last night!" It's the most obvious call, the cheapest and the least complex. Like I said in an earlier post, 9 times out of 10, mechanical problems are caused by something cheap, easy and often overlooked.

BTW, if the OP isn't exaggerating, with a rifle that shoots groups as tight as that, it should be a competition rifle. Dude got lucky.