horizonal stringing

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by bcwhit, Jan 11, 2011.

  1. bcwhit

    bcwhit Active Member

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    I was shooting a new m700 in 243 with handloaded100 sierra bullets at 100 yrd, i couldn't of got a straiter line with a chalk line. five shots in a row in a perfect line about half an inch in lenght. cooled down the barrel and shot another five same result.just wondering what is the culprit.

    billy
     
  2. Firecat

    Firecat Well-Known Member

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    Is your barrel free floated? As your barrel warms up it may be receiving enough pressure to string your shots in a row.
     

  3. tunacan

    tunacan Well-Known Member

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  4. roninflag

    roninflag Well-Known Member

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    in long range shooting horizontal is "mostly" the wind ; vertical is "mostly" the load, rifle and shooter. horizontal in 100 yard groups still could be wind. 1/2 inch is a pretty good group with factory barrel no matter which way it strings.
     
  5. bcwhit

    bcwhit Active Member

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    Thanks for the info Guys.
    I have removed the factory stock and replaced it with a b&c stock. The barrel is floated but the action isn't bedded I will likely bed it after hunting season is over.

    billy
     
  6. nheninge

    nheninge Well-Known Member

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    I just shot today and noticed the same thing.

    These are my thoughts in no particular order:

    check actions screws for proper tightness
    check scope for axial slide, loose screws etc
    wind
    free recoil with unstable rest (bipod?)
    parallax adjusted properly
    barrel flex with increasing temp

    I attributed my horizontal to a 10-15 mph switching wind and free recoil. After I switched to a forearm grip, it was immediately reduced.

    Any other suggestions, I'm listening!
     
  7. backwoods83

    backwoods83 Well-Known Member

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    drop down in bullet weight, i have a 700 sps buckmaster 243 same twist as yours 9.25 and it does well with 95s .300-.550" but it stays under .300 with 80s. i have often found that the remingtons and the h&rs like lighter bullets, rugers and savages do a little better with the heavier ones. plus if it is new you will want to shoot it until it stops copper fouling, run some copper solvent through it, and a dose of J&B compound. thats the best i can tell you, good luck!
     
  8. Gene

    Gene Well-Known Member

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    Another tip: Your equipment should be of good quality, i.e., foreend fits the bag tightly; front rest is solid; rear bag fits the stock well and moves smoothly. Then there is your technique. Is your hold consistent every shot? Trigger pull the same? Solid bench? Any movement at all can produce undesirable results. Of course, wind may be the culprit. Are you using wind flags?
     
  9. Boss Hoss

    Boss Hoss Well-Known Member

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    Doubt this is a reloading issue. Sounds like equipment or operator error. Read the below tips by a HOF Shooter and Smith. Live and learn!!

    Tips on Vertical Problems





    1. A lot of rifles are muzzle heavy. Some rifles have too heavy a barrel and this causes vertical problems, especially those who shoot free recoil



    2. Firing pin coming out of hole in bolt in the cocked position. This will cause poor ignition. Take bolt out of rifle and look in firing pin hole. If you cannot see entire end of firing pin it has come out of the hole.



    3. Firing pin dragging in bolt or shroud. Listen to the sound when you dry fire. If not the same sound each shot something is wrong.



    4. Trigger sear too much spring. Hold trigger in firing position and push down on sear with your thumb. If it is hard to push down, this will cause vertical problems.



    5. Firing pin spring too weak or too strong will cause vertical problems. If you think this is the problem change springs and see what happens.



    6. Tightening front sand bag too tight on stock. When you try to pull rifle back by hand and rifle feels like it is stuck in the bag it is too tight. Rifle should move in sand bags evenly, not jerk or chatter when pulling back by hand.



    7. Action not level with top of stock running down at muzzle end. Rifle will recoil up at butt end causing vertical.



    8. The load that are shooting can too light or heavy and can cause vertical problems.



    9. Bench technique not same every shot. One example, should against stock one shot and not the next.



    10. Bad primers – if getting vertical try other primers.



    11. Bad scope, if scope is bad from shooting vertical, if you change your load in anyway and vertical goes away it is not your scope.



    12. Rifle not balanced, it does not recoil right, jumps in bag. If rifle is built properly this will not happen.



    13. Some stocks are very flexible. This can cause vertical.



    14. Front sandbag too hard. I personally have never had a rifle that will shoot consistent with a rock hard front sandbag. It always causes vertical or other unexplained shots.







    Other Tips:



    1. Head on front rest loose. A lot of rests have movement even when you tighten them as much as you can. This can cause unexplained shots.



    2. Some 30 mm scope rings are not getting tight enough to hold scope. Scope slipping in rings under recoil. This will cause point of aim movement.



    3. Keep shell holders clean, in press and priming tool. I have seen so much dirt in shell holders that cases are sized crocked on body. Also primers cutting primer pockets bigger shaving brass as you seat the primer.



    4. Whenever you can, set up so you can load watching conditions on the range as you load your ammo. That way you will be aware of any changes in conditions since your last group and you will be mentally prepared for the new condition.



    5. Learn to look at whole field of flags, not just the row in front of you. A lot of times conditions change away from you will cause shot to go out of group before change in condition shows up in front of your bench.



    6. When you chamfer the inside of your case necks make sure they are smooth enough that they don’t peel jacket material off when you seat the bullet.



    7. I see people walking around with case necks turned up in the loading block. A lot of the time there is condensation dropping from the roof of your loading area. If one drop of water gets in case you are in trouble on the shot. How many times have you had a bad low shot when it has been raining and you have been walking around with your cases turned up in your block?



    8. Learn to keep head down and follow through when you are shooting each shot.



    9. I hear a lot of discussion about low shots in a group and apparently this occurs a lot on the fifth shot. If it is your 5th shot most of the time you can bet you are doing something at the bench.



    10. If 5th shot is a problem, which everyone does at times, we do what I call wishing the last shot in. We just aim, pull the trigger, and do not worry about the wind flags.



    11. This year alone I have seen nine lock rings on scopes that are not tight. Guess what that does to your group? Make sure yours are tight.



    12. When you realize that the wind is your friend you will become a much better benchrest shooter.



    13. Practice in wind, not in good condition.



    14. Pay attention to angle changes on flags. Even though you see the same color angle changes make a big difference in your groups.



    15. The longer you wait between shots when a condition is changing the more the condition change will affect your bullet.



    16. If you do not know how to read wind flags or have never seen a wind flag try to shoot your group with the flags all going in one direction.



    17. Equipment at bench has to work flawlessly. If it doesn’t get it fixed or get rid of it. We need all our attention on wind flags.



    18. Learn to shoot with both eyes open so you can see more of the conditions.



    19. Free recoil shooters should be sure rifle hits shoulder squarely on recoil, not on edge of shoulder or muscle of arm.



    20. Should have your own stool to sit on so that you can sit at the bench comfortably for you.



    21. Hunting rifle barrels – do not get cleaned enough. If you keep barrel clean it will shoot better for you. You should clean barrel good after every 10 to 12 shots.



    22. Most hunting rifles will not put first shot after cleaning with rest of shots. So after cleaning if you have a rifle that won’t group first shot shoot one fouling shot before going hunting or before you shoot for group size.



    23. When working up a load for your hunting rifle take your time and do not let the barrel get hot on you.
     
  10. backwoods83

    backwoods83 Well-Known Member

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    are you all disalexsic, horizontal means side to side, vertical is up and down, this guy asked about horizontal, and im no genious by far but even with a 10mph 90 degree cross wind its only gonna shift about .2" at most at 100yrds, so the gun doesn't like the rounds or he flinches to much, i dont think he needs tips for 1000yrd benchrest with a remington 700 (Hunting) rifle!
     
  11. Firecat

    Firecat Well-Known Member

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    1+ Backwoods. I agree. My guess is either primers or seat depth. That's considering that his barrel is free floated and is not receiving lateral pressure as his barrel warms up.

    One thing to try he next time you are at the range is shooing a three to five shot group with long periods of time between each shot. The period of time needs to be long enough to allow your barrel to cool completely. This will help you to know if you have issues as your barrel warms.
     
  12. Boss Hoss

    Boss Hoss Well-Known Member

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    The person who wrote those tips is a HOF 100yd shooter but the process is the same. Read and apply this to your shooting and maybe I will see you at a match because there is a lot more to shooting than using the right primers lol!


    Sorry but if you knew anything about how to get the most accuracy from your rifle you could understand that "bag manners" has a lot to do with how the rifle performs period end of story.

    Here is some more information for you to ponder about condition:

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  13. Loner

    Loner Well-Known Member

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    1/2" with a factory barrel is not indicative of a problem. It's darn good shooting. Sounds
    like the barrel is heating up and changing poa if it's repeating every group. Try shooting
    round robin instead of five in one target then five in the next and so on.
     
  14. Firecat

    Firecat Well-Known Member

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    Boss, before you get all bent out of shape lets take a step back. The OP is asking about why a reload is acting such a way. We all know that there could be dozens of reasons that he is getting a certain result. This could include anything from form to equipment. However, for some variables we have to give him the benefit of the doubt. For example, his ability to shoot. the OP is getting a horizontal deviation of approximately .5 inches at 100yds. He needs to have some shooting ability to even achieve this much precision. Not every Johnny can put five in under a half inch at a hunsky or every rifle for that matter. From there we move to the next possible cause. Perhaps its his rifle or his reloads. Where would I begin? Well thats the advice given. Backwoods was right in his evaluation as well. The OP was not asking about vertical but horizontal. If that stirs your pot the wrong way I'm sorry, but the attitude and criticism is not needed.