I own Armalite AR30 in .338 lapua with Weaver Front Focal mil-dot scope, sling and bipod, rifle shoots 1/2 moa to at least a 1000 ( far as I have been able to shoot it so far) I have $2800.00 in package......rifle is as rugged as they come, recoil is like 20 gauge shotgun at most....why are there so many rifles out there that cost 3k and up for bare rifle that do not shoot, or are built any better....if Armalite can build a rifle like the AR30 that is rugged and shoots as good as anything else ...for a lot less...why pay the big money ? curious to opinions....
High Dollar Rifles...
- Thread starter drt4lfe
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thehulk
Well-Known Member
MHO
Well-Known Member
IMO yes. If you can afford it. You got lucky which is great. I have some out of the box rifles and ARs that will shoot with any custom. But as a norm, IMO you get what you pay for. With anything. Optics, Rifles etc.
thehulk
Well-Known Member
Let me take a stab at this, a new friend of mine from the forum schooled me up pretty good. Heres what i took from what he said.
The reason for the price difference, or accuracy difference in factory rifles is because the tool used to crank out barrels get worn out (small amount like .002 ect) but that's why some rifles out of the box tend to shoot better than others cause barrel #22 is gonna be different than barrel #89 just due to the fact of machining the barrel is going to wear on the equipment itself, albeit very miniscule. But that small amount will show up, whether its at 100 yards, or 1,000.
So, the custom barrels don't cookie cutter equipment, because they dont have to crank out 1,000's of rifles. Your paying for custom hand work, and usually getting every penny worth of it assuming you load is where it should be. Now thats not to say out of the box guns won't shoot great, because as we all know, they often can and will shoot great. But I tend to think of it in terms like this, for every 10 out of the box guns thats shoots better than 1 MOA, there are 50 that dont. Likewise for every custom gun that shoots better than 1MOA there are 5 that dont. You get what you pay for in most cases. Some are luckier than others.
By all means, correct me if I am mistaken, this is just my .02$ from what I understood.
I own a Weatherby Vanguard 338 Win Mag. It cost me $387.00+ tax. I have a $500.00 Vortex Viper HS scope on it. I have a $22.00 sling on it. It shoots 1/2 MOA at 300 with my custom loads using accubonds, H4831sc and and Federal Magnum primers. I use $26.00 Lee collet die set and a $31.00 Redding Body die.
I wonder why people buy $2800 rifles, $1600.00 scopes and $300 reloading dies?
I wonder why people buy $2800 rifles, $1600.00 scopes and $300 reloading dies?
The smart *** answer is.... because it's my money and I want EXACTLY what I have pictured in my head as the perfect gun.
Technical(sorta) answer is not only can you get exactly what you want if the thing doesn't shoot to the expectations established between you and the smith there can be recourse. It is also paying the builder for thier expertise, the barrel maker for thiers and on up the ladder. I wanted one of the wildcats based on the 408 and that simply isn't available from a factory. If your remmy doesn't shoot even 2 MOA they probably won't help you.
It's like saying i don't know why you spent all that money on a AR-30 when you can get the savage cheaper. How about why spend $500 on a scope when the highpower guys can shoot 1/2 MOA with open sites.
I really spend so much money on guns to help the poor starving gunsmiths that couldn't possibly get by without my help....... just doing my part to keep unemployment down. Thats what I tell the wife anyway!!!!
Technical(sorta) answer is not only can you get exactly what you want if the thing doesn't shoot to the expectations established between you and the smith there can be recourse. It is also paying the builder for thier expertise, the barrel maker for thiers and on up the ladder. I wanted one of the wildcats based on the 408 and that simply isn't available from a factory. If your remmy doesn't shoot even 2 MOA they probably won't help you.
It's like saying i don't know why you spent all that money on a AR-30 when you can get the savage cheaper. How about why spend $500 on a scope when the highpower guys can shoot 1/2 MOA with open sites.
I really spend so much money on guns to help the poor starving gunsmiths that couldn't possibly get by without my help....... just doing my part to keep unemployment down. Thats what I tell the wife anyway!!!!
Sorry drt4lfe, no offense meant.
There are too many guys out there claiming their Howas, Rem 700s, AR 15s &c shoot 0,15 mrad all the day, "so why does someone buy a custom gun?"
Most of them had one lucky day, shooting a perfectly fine group and ignore that there were groups less tight in the last weeks.
So I'm a bit sceptical when someone claims to have found the holy grail.
Though if my memory doesn't fool me, Sako TRG 22s were sold for 1800 Euros ten years ago and they do shoot very fine.
There are too many guys out there claiming their Howas, Rem 700s, AR 15s &c shoot 0,15 mrad all the day, "so why does someone buy a custom gun?"
Most of them had one lucky day, shooting a perfectly fine group and ignore that there were groups less tight in the last weeks.
So I'm a bit sceptical when someone claims to have found the holy grail.
Though if my memory doesn't fool me, Sako TRG 22s were sold for 1800 Euros ten years ago and they do shoot very fine.
MY ? is what size groups average at 1000. How many have you shot ,one or 50?And as a refernce, there are brand new trg 42 for sale @2600 right now and are known to shoot. What doe your rifle weigh? Trg ha s fully adj stock, adj 2 stage trigger. short bolt throw, nice acc,
I have not shot 50 plus 1000 yd. groups....I was 2 time West Virginia State High Power Champion and placed 5th in National Indiviual match at Camp Robinson, AR. while in Military...I have shot everything from smallbore rifle and pistol to M2 50...carried M249 shorty on a tour in Shitcanastan....the M249 by the way is about as accurate as a smoothbore musket....My AR30 will and does shoot 1/2 MOA...best so far is 5 inch group at 1000...shooting HSM 300 Sierra BTHP ammo...I did not anticipate rifle would shoot that good...the two who witnessed are all I need to know what rifle is capable of....I have done enough shooting to know....so if you doubt...who cares...I don't....
I have trouble getting past the prices on full custom rifles, but I have shot friends Surgeon, GAP, and Nighthawk Customs, and for me there is no comparison to factory rifles, these things are amazing, I hope to own a Surgeon in the next couple years.
For me the biggest factors are barrels and bedding, every mass produced barrel is probably going to shoot different, not saying they wont shoot, some may shoot better dirty than clean, etc. I personaly will feel better having a hand lapped cut rifled barrel fitted by a good smith when I am looking at the buck of a lifetime, just my opinion. I know of a smith who painstakingly indexes the barrel to the bore before cutting the chamber and threads, my opinion you wont get this precision from mass produced rifles.
For bedding, I want to know that if I take the barrel/action out of the stock it will go back together with the same fit and contact points every time, my opinion, you dont get that in a factory rifle.
For me, a custom rifle would be equipment peace of mind, and I will say If I had never had hands on expirence with a custom I would be like, WHAT? HOW MUCH? YOUR CRAZY!!!!
For me the biggest factors are barrels and bedding, every mass produced barrel is probably going to shoot different, not saying they wont shoot, some may shoot better dirty than clean, etc. I personaly will feel better having a hand lapped cut rifled barrel fitted by a good smith when I am looking at the buck of a lifetime, just my opinion. I know of a smith who painstakingly indexes the barrel to the bore before cutting the chamber and threads, my opinion you wont get this precision from mass produced rifles.
For bedding, I want to know that if I take the barrel/action out of the stock it will go back together with the same fit and contact points every time, my opinion, you dont get that in a factory rifle.
For me, a custom rifle would be equipment peace of mind, and I will say If I had never had hands on expirence with a custom I would be like, WHAT? HOW MUCH? YOUR CRAZY!!!!
Fiftydriver
Official LRH Sponsor
The AR-30 is a good rifle for sure. The AR-50 is also a great rifle, in fact its my preferred platform for my 510 ALLEN MAGNUM wildcat custom rifles. They are quite affordable for what you get. Why is that, well lets be honest, their finishes are pretty rough. The stocks are very simplistic as are the receivers and muzzle brakes. They flat out look like a mil spec weapon. This is not a bad thing but they are not all that pretty either. Some like a rifle that looks as good as it shoots.
Also, staying with being honest, some of these rifles shoot EXTEMELY well, some shoot alright, some are quite bad, just like every commercial rifle out there. If every commercial rifle shot as well as the best examples of each rifle, I would be out of work. Fortunately for me, companies will generally hold their rifles to a 2 moa accuracy standard. If the rifles shoot better then 2 moa, they will generally not do anything to warrantee their rifles as long as they are functionally sound.
A BAD group with a quality factory rifle would be around 1 moa. GOOD groups will be in the 1/4 moa range and that is at distance, not at 100 yards.
Another thing is making a rifle that is personally suited to you. I am working on 1000 rifles out the shop door since I opened up my shop. Very few of these have looked like any others. In fact most of the ones that have looked similiar have been rifles I have built on factory rifles such as the Rem 700 or Armalite platforms.
SO what do you get with a custom rifle that makes it worth the extra cost. Well if you go through a good shop like my shop and all of my fellow builders here on LRH, you get our full attention to detail. You also get:
-An accuracy potential guarantee, usually 1/2 moa
-You get personal attention from the builder
-You get your choice of receivers and all the options that come with custom receivers
-You get your choice of custom barrels
-You get your choice of muzzle accessaries
-You get your choice of barrel flutting options
-You get your choice of metal finish options
-You get your choice of magazine systems
-You get your choice of nearly and endless list of stock choices
-You get your choice of stock finish and color
-You get a quality pillar bedding job on the stock
-You get your choice of the best triggers in the world
-You get your choice of chamberings, standard or wildcats
-You can get custom load development for your rifle
-You get a sounding board to ask questions to in the custom builder
-You get long term support for your rifle
-Most of all, you have a full custom rifle built for you and nobody else, no cookie cutter rifles, all are made custom specifically for each customer.
-Generally you get a friend in the rifle builder.
Just a few things you get with a custom rifle that you do not with a factory rifle. Is it worth it, thats the call of each shooter for their own needs. Now, you can certainly overspend on a rifle. Just like everything, you need to do your homework, do some research and talk to customers to see how their products are performing. Do not take the word of the builder, get third party references. You can spend $3K and you can spend $6K and get the same quality rifle. YOu can spend $3K and you can get better quality then some $6K rifles.
Also, staying with being honest, some of these rifles shoot EXTEMELY well, some shoot alright, some are quite bad, just like every commercial rifle out there. If every commercial rifle shot as well as the best examples of each rifle, I would be out of work. Fortunately for me, companies will generally hold their rifles to a 2 moa accuracy standard. If the rifles shoot better then 2 moa, they will generally not do anything to warrantee their rifles as long as they are functionally sound.
A BAD group with a quality factory rifle would be around 1 moa. GOOD groups will be in the 1/4 moa range and that is at distance, not at 100 yards.
Another thing is making a rifle that is personally suited to you. I am working on 1000 rifles out the shop door since I opened up my shop. Very few of these have looked like any others. In fact most of the ones that have looked similiar have been rifles I have built on factory rifles such as the Rem 700 or Armalite platforms.
SO what do you get with a custom rifle that makes it worth the extra cost. Well if you go through a good shop like my shop and all of my fellow builders here on LRH, you get our full attention to detail. You also get:
-An accuracy potential guarantee, usually 1/2 moa
-You get personal attention from the builder
-You get your choice of receivers and all the options that come with custom receivers
-You get your choice of custom barrels
-You get your choice of muzzle accessaries
-You get your choice of barrel flutting options
-You get your choice of metal finish options
-You get your choice of magazine systems
-You get your choice of nearly and endless list of stock choices
-You get your choice of stock finish and color
-You get a quality pillar bedding job on the stock
-You get your choice of the best triggers in the world
-You get your choice of chamberings, standard or wildcats
-You can get custom load development for your rifle
-You get a sounding board to ask questions to in the custom builder
-You get long term support for your rifle
-Most of all, you have a full custom rifle built for you and nobody else, no cookie cutter rifles, all are made custom specifically for each customer.
-Generally you get a friend in the rifle builder.
Just a few things you get with a custom rifle that you do not with a factory rifle. Is it worth it, thats the call of each shooter for their own needs. Now, you can certainly overspend on a rifle. Just like everything, you need to do your homework, do some research and talk to customers to see how their products are performing. Do not take the word of the builder, get third party references. You can spend $3K and you can spend $6K and get the same quality rifle. YOu can spend $3K and you can get better quality then some $6K rifles.
