An animal tissue & muscle is not considered as non compressable, infact the tissue and muscle ar a soft solid and dry news print nor dry phine books simulate tissue/muscle very well as their are no hydrolics. When compairing the Henson bullet to the SMK in the same medium I believe that certain conclusions an be drawn.
Henson Aluminum tipped bullets test
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An animal tissue & muscle is not considered as non compressable, infact the tissue and muscle ar a soft solid and dry news print nor dry phine books simulate tissue/muscle very well as their are no hydrolics. When compairing the Henson bullet to the SMK in the same medium I believe that certain conclusions an be drawn.
Varminator 911
Well-Known Member
jpw475:
Water is very much noncompressible. An animal is mostly water. I don't see dry newspaper as being anything like an animal. Not trying to be a horses behind here. Guess we can all conclude whatever we want.
Water is very much noncompressible. An animal is mostly water. I don't see dry newspaper as being anything like an animal. Not trying to be a horses behind here. Guess we can all conclude whatever we want.
MontanaRifleman
Well-Known Member
Phone Books vs Flesh
Previous post corrected.
Phone books and flesh are definitely different. A few weeks ago I saw pics of a test comaparing 30 cal E-Tips, BT's and TSX's. They were 150 gr. They were shot into a mixture of wet and dry phonebooks @ 3150 fps to check performance. The BT penetrated 10", the E-Tip penetrated 11" and the TSX penetrated 15".
I have never shot TSX'x before, but I know they will penetrate flesh a lot more than 15" @ 3100 fps. I wouldn't be surprized if a TSX @ 3150 fps would pass clean through 2 elk side by side.
http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...b/showflat/Number/2218265/page/1/nt/3/fpart/1
Previous post corrected.
Phone books and flesh are definitely different. A few weeks ago I saw pics of a test comaparing 30 cal E-Tips, BT's and TSX's. They were 150 gr. They were shot into a mixture of wet and dry phonebooks @ 3150 fps to check performance. The BT penetrated 10", the E-Tip penetrated 11" and the TSX penetrated 15".
I have never shot TSX'x before, but I know they will penetrate flesh a lot more than 15" @ 3100 fps. I wouldn't be surprized if a TSX @ 3150 fps would pass clean through 2 elk side by side.
http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...b/showflat/Number/2218265/page/1/nt/3/fpart/1
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Lightvarmint
Guest
Go take a look at the Corbin website. It states the RBT has more drag than the traditional boat tail.
James
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Lightvarmint
Guest
I fully expect a real life, field test using normal muzzle velocities soon. When this happens, I will post the entrance and exit photos and then we can compare them to the dry newspapers and the wooden test media...
James
Varminator 911
Well-Known Member
+1 on that
Montanarifleman:
I agree with your assement of the TSX and it's penetration in paper vs flesh. I also think that the Henson 280 at 1900 fps at full rpm would either pencil thru two elk or expand and flatten the first one. I think one of those is more likely than tumbling as it did in dry newspaper. I guess we'll find out come hunting season which is the case. If it won't expand at 1900 fps, it won't work for me.
Best to all
Montanarifleman:
I agree with your assement of the TSX and it's penetration in paper vs flesh. I also think that the Henson 280 at 1900 fps at full rpm would either pencil thru two elk or expand and flatten the first one. I think one of those is more likely than tumbling as it did in dry newspaper. I guess we'll find out come hunting season which is the case. If it won't expand at 1900 fps, it won't work for me.
Best to all
MontanaRifleman
Well-Known Member
James, I hope your tests turn out well. The HAT's seem to have a lot of potential. I guess the proof will be in the pudding. Cheers
GG, Good job on the testing although I would sure like to see some tests from normal MVs at different ranges. Close, medium and LR. Will be interested in seeing what James tests show. Cheers
GG, Good job on the testing although I would sure like to see some tests from normal MVs at different ranges. Close, medium and LR. Will be interested in seeing what James tests show. Cheers
L
Lightvarmint
Guest
Gron GG,
Four: New dies? So If I had found these bullets to work well and spent a grundle of money to work up a load for them, when were we going to find out that the "old" bullet was no longer going to be available? Or are you going to produce both bullets? When bullet manufacturers change dies or discontinue bullets, people tend to get really upset!
GG,
The dies he just received this week were ordered last September. He has been waiting on them since then. As you well know, this is fairly standard lead time for bullet making dies. FWIW, most companies improve their product lines all the time and if they don't, they will not be in business long. Someone will come around and improve it for them.
I am sure that he will make you as many of the "old" bullets as you desire. However, the old bullets were made on a die that was purchased off the shelf at Corbin and not specifically designed for these aluminum tips and took many more steps to get them correct. The new dies are designed from the ground up for the aluminum tips. Both dies work, but one is a new gerneration die and the other is an older one.
So, in reality, you tested bullets that will not be the marquis offering in .338 caliber. You tested the initial phase bullets but you can still get them if you want them if you are not interested in the newer generation offerings.
James
Four: New dies? So If I had found these bullets to work well and spent a grundle of money to work up a load for them, when were we going to find out that the "old" bullet was no longer going to be available? Or are you going to produce both bullets? When bullet manufacturers change dies or discontinue bullets, people tend to get really upset!
GG,
The dies he just received this week were ordered last September. He has been waiting on them since then. As you well know, this is fairly standard lead time for bullet making dies. FWIW, most companies improve their product lines all the time and if they don't, they will not be in business long. Someone will come around and improve it for them.
I am sure that he will make you as many of the "old" bullets as you desire. However, the old bullets were made on a die that was purchased off the shelf at Corbin and not specifically designed for these aluminum tips and took many more steps to get them correct. The new dies are designed from the ground up for the aluminum tips. Both dies work, but one is a new gerneration die and the other is an older one.
So, in reality, you tested bullets that will not be the marquis offering in .338 caliber. You tested the initial phase bullets but you can still get them if you want them if you are not interested in the newer generation offerings.
James
Buffalobob
Well-Known Member
Well, this has been entertaining to say the least.
Humorous sometimes, disappointing sometimes.
Here is what good bullet performance at 968 yards looks like when you put the crosshairs on a 6X6 bull and have a good bullet come out of your barrel.
Humorous sometimes, disappointing sometimes.
Here is what good bullet performance at 968 yards looks like when you put the crosshairs on a 6X6 bull and have a good bullet come out of your barrel.
goodgrouper
Well-Known Member
jpw475:
Water is very much noncompressible. An animal is mostly water. I don't see dry newspaper as being anything like an animal. Not trying to be a horses behind here. Guess we can all conclude whatever we want.
I have a question for you. Since dry newspaper is certainly harder on a bullet than real flesh, what happens to a bullet that won't expand in newspaper when it hits game at long range or any range for that matter?
goodgrouper
Well-Known Member
Good to know! I have no use for the old die bullets if they will be obsolete before I can even get a load developed for them.
Hopefully, the new dies will be good.
On a different note, I hope this test has been helpful. As I see it, Mr Henson can take what he's learned from my test and correct the problem and change a few things now, or he can say this test was invalid and wait until later to fix the problem after people are screaming about wounded game. IN other words, he can use this to his advantage or disadvantage depending on how he plays the next 9 holes.
Roll-Yur-Own
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2006
- Messages
- 795
GG, I agree 100%. The purpose of testing is too gather information that will make them better. I would like to see the results on game that Lightvarmint will be posting soon. I know his deer season starts next week.
If the manufacturer wants to pm me I would be happy to help him with his design. As I said earlier, it is often a few small tweeks that help stability. The problem with Jacketed bullets is that you are working with dies whereas with solids we just change the program on the CNC.
If the manufacturer wants to pm me I would be happy to help him with his design. As I said earlier, it is often a few small tweeks that help stability. The problem with Jacketed bullets is that you are working with dies whereas with solids we just change the program on the CNC.
Varminator 911
Well-Known Member
paper shredder?
Goodgrouper:
My feeling is that dry newspaper is nothing like an animal. The newspaper, even packed fairly tight, moves with and ahead of the bullet, it's light and easily compressible. It lacks enough mass to hold it in place and allow the bullet to pass thru. It's the perfect bullet catcher. Sort of like a bullet proof vest. Flesh on the other hand is basically water, it's incompressible and high in mass. It doesn't move along with and ahead of the bullet, it's thrown to the side. Have you ever seen the slow speed video of a 180 gr TSX thru ballistic gelitin? A huge cavity forms behind the bullet. How much cavity do you think there is in dry newspaper, absolutely none!!! Once the nose of that bullet hangs up in 50 layers of paper, the bullet is going to turn sideways. Your catching the nose in a bullet proof vest of sorts.
At least that's how I see it. Thank you for sharing the results. I hope there are no hard feelings.
We'll see soon how they perform on game. If they won't open reliably at 1900 fps, they probably won't have much of a market at $1.50 a pop.
Goodgrouper:
My feeling is that dry newspaper is nothing like an animal. The newspaper, even packed fairly tight, moves with and ahead of the bullet, it's light and easily compressible. It lacks enough mass to hold it in place and allow the bullet to pass thru. It's the perfect bullet catcher. Sort of like a bullet proof vest. Flesh on the other hand is basically water, it's incompressible and high in mass. It doesn't move along with and ahead of the bullet, it's thrown to the side. Have you ever seen the slow speed video of a 180 gr TSX thru ballistic gelitin? A huge cavity forms behind the bullet. How much cavity do you think there is in dry newspaper, absolutely none!!! Once the nose of that bullet hangs up in 50 layers of paper, the bullet is going to turn sideways. Your catching the nose in a bullet proof vest of sorts.
At least that's how I see it. Thank you for sharing the results. I hope there are no hard feelings.
We'll see soon how they perform on game. If they won't open reliably at 1900 fps, they probably won't have much of a market at $1.50 a pop.
davewilson
Well-Known Member
GG, i think the one thing missing from your test is RPM's. in the beginning of this post Kirby asked how you were gonna duplicate this and i think he hit the nail on the head. in all of my tests there wasn't even one that penetrated as much as the Sierras. when spinning fast enough to hit straight, i still think these come apart every bit as fast if not quicker than the Sierras. i understand your argument about them tumbling and needing to come apart. i suspect this is much farther than i will ever shoot trying to kill ananimal.
