I need some help. I've been trying to do load development with my Remington 700 Long Range in .300 Win Mag and I'm having trouble. I had a pretty good load with 208gr A-MAXs and they shot under .5 MOA but then they got discontinued and I decided to try the new 200gr Hornady ELD-X bullets. Well now I've fired 20 rounds with them from 74gr up to 75 gr of IMR 7828 and cannot get them to shoot. This was the node with the A-MAXs and it's not working. I will get 3 shots go within .5" then get two flyers. Will mirage cause this or what? Because I'm getting frustrated and I'm about to give up on it for awhile. I've scrubbed and scrubbed the barrel until almost all the copper is gone and that didn't help. I've left copper in it, same results. Besides telling me to get a new barrel, can anyone give me any ideas? Couple people have told me it might be the mirage but I don't see much of it when I look through the scope on 4x or on 16x. Any help is appreciated thanks.
Help with Flyers
- Thread starter Jud96
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ShootnMathews
Well-Known Member
My advice, try a different bullet. I've learned that you cannot make a gun shoot the bullet you want it to shoot, you have to shoot the bullet it wants.
I bought a gun 3 years ago with the idea of shooting 140 VLD bullets in it. 200 rounds in and trying everything I knew to try. By the way, flyers was my problem also. 3 touching and 1 an inch away every group. I switched to Nosler ballistic tips and it shoots 1/4 moa or better sometimes. Best group is .11" at 100 yards.
I bought a gun 3 years ago with the idea of shooting 140 VLD bullets in it. 200 rounds in and trying everything I knew to try. By the way, flyers was my problem also. 3 touching and 1 an inch away every group. I switched to Nosler ballistic tips and it shoots 1/4 moa or better sometimes. Best group is .11" at 100 yards.
dok7mm
Well-Known Member
Jud, just a thought, but are you tracking your velocity? If I'm getting flyers when the shot felt good, the first thing I check for is a sizable increase or decrease in speed. Sometimes, it is a variance in neck tension or as ShootnMathews said, it's just the bullet. I had your exact problem with 175 eld-x in a 9 twist 7RM. I was going crazy over flyers @ 100, just tried different powders and seating depths -- nothing worked. Finally, I tried the best load @ 200. I had three touching and two out, both were 1.5" out and keyholed. This rifle shot 180 vlds under 1/2 moa, but would not stabilze the 175 @ 1500' elevation. One thing I noticed was that I was getting a lot of coppering with the eld-x and practically none with 168 and 180 Bergers. I just gave up on shooting the bullet I thought would be The One.
Well I have been very frustrated with this rifle and I didn't mess with it much since when I started this thread. Today I went to the range and shot 5 different loads with 3 shots each. I loaded my old stand by load with the 208gr A-MAX, two loads with the 208gr ELD-M, and two loads with the 175gr Tipped MatchKing. Below are the results. Every group has a flyer as you can see, high and to the right. The flyer seemed to be on the 2nd or 3rd shot. I let the barrel cool on some groups and I shot it when it was warm on a couple and there was no difference. There was no mirage or wind today. I made good, repeatable shots with the same hold and rest. I cannot for the life of me figure out these flyers! I am starting to think its the scope, so I put on another scope to see if that fixes the problems. The scope I normally have on it is a Vortex HS-T 4-16x44. I have double checked that nothing is bound up and made sure the barrel was free floated and the bedding is good. I don't think it is the barrel because how can two shots go in the same spot and then the third one is 3/4" high and right?
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gohring3006
Well-Known Member
I think your gun/bullets doesn't like the powder.. I ran into this two times with two different rifles...
Another thing is, seating depth.
My 300 Weatherby thru a flier in every group, then I got so frustrated I seated the bullets out as long as I could and still eject them, and bingo!!
Another thing is, seating depth.
My 300 Weatherby thru a flier in every group, then I got so frustrated I seated the bullets out as long as I could and still eject them, and bingo!!
The odd thing is the A-MAX load I shot today was terrible, and before this same load shot sub .5 MOA! I don't get it. I also tried different bullet weights and IMR 4831 with one of the Tipped MatchKing loads and they still had the same type of flyer. Really starting to irritate me.
gohring3006
Well-Known Member
That reminds me so much of my 300 Weatherby, last year I had a 1/2" 208 load. This year it went to crap....
So that's when I did the seating depth change and it was fixed. I have since switched to the 225 BTHP which has a very long bearing surface, it shoots really well out my my long throat Weatherby...
If this other scope doesn't fix the problem then I guess it's the barrel. But the flyer happens so consistently and in the same spot nearly every time, I don't see this being the barrel. I have double checked my bedding and everything looks great. I do not know what the heck is going on. Maybe it is seating depth?
WildRose
Well-Known Member
3 out of 5 of my Vortex Viper PST's had similar problems. They would not hold zero and would jump around. Sometimes a 1/4 MOA adjustment moved the shot over an inch and sometimes POI would not move at all with four to six 1/4 moa adjustments.
Sent them in, got them fixed, problem solved but when I ran into this same problem with all three I just sold them and went back to Leupold.
Sent them in, got them fixed, problem solved but when I ran into this same problem with all three I just sold them and went back to Leupold.
It doesn't seem like my Vortex is losing zero. But I don't see how I'm consistently getting a high right flyer. I thought maybe the parallex is changing on the scope internally? I don't know. I would think if it was me causing the issues the flyers would be less consistent. I don't know how I'm getting 2 in the same hole or right next to each other then that big ugly shot like 3/4 of an inch away. I just don't understand. From my pictures and my description, you think the scope could have something to do with this? Thanks
WildRose
Well-Known Member
For myself most fiers are due to something I'm doing, just not being patient enough. If your reticle is loose though and bouncing around that could certainly cause it.
You might just want to try seating them out a bit longer and see if that helps.
If you have the ability to do so it would also make a lot of sense to see what they are doing out at 200-300yds. If they are failing to stabilize properly all kinds of weird stuff can happen.
Also if you aren't doing so already you might want to try weight sorting your brass and checking the thickness of the brass in the neck. If your neck tension is not consistent that can certainly cause fliers.
One thing for sure, I learned long ago that when I get frustrated I need to walk away from it and do something else otherwise I get to pushing it and causing more problems than I had to start with.
BergerFan222
Active Member
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Agreed. Some barrels and some bullets just don't play nice. I just try a different bullet. A good barrel will like one of the first 3 match grade bullets you try, but not always the first one.
I have tried 6 bullets in this gun including 3 today in the pictures I listed. Something here is fishy. I don't see 3 different bullets, all with different powder charges, all having the same flyer.
BergerFan222
Active Member
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I stick with Leupold scopes. Less to worry about.
