Help Reading My Groups

[riemer]

I was doing some load development with my factory 700 7mm STW. I shot the first group at 200 yards let the gun cool and shot the second group at 400 yards. The load was:
H1000 77.5
Berger 168 VLD
Fed215M
3027FPS
Can anyone point me in a direction to pull the group together at 400 yards. I had a similar issue shooting the 180 hybrids, 200 yards it shot .8 at 400 the group opened up to over 4.5".

 

[BrentM]

Do you change shooter positions or anything else to shoot the 400 target? Power setting, seating position, across terrain features?

 

[ohiohunter]

Is the left target 400? If it is, I see a sub 4" group.


** I also don't quite see the 0.8" group on the right..... also noticed 15mph wind!!!

 

[riemer]

Maybe I'm asking the wrong question, at what point do you differentiate, between shooter error and the load needing tweaked?

 

[FearNoWind]

Maybe I'm asking the wrong question, at what point do you differentiate, between shooter error and the load needing tweaked?

The point for making that determination starts with a known value at 100 yards.
That means a rifle that's proven to be consistently capable of sub 1 moa groups. Shoot five rounds. If the group from the rifle of known value doesn't match the sub 1 moa standard the rifleman needs to work on shooting skills. Once shooting skills are developed the rifleman is qualified to evaluate load results on target.
IMO, combining an inexperienced/unproven shooter with load testing is an exercise in futility.

 

[riemer]

The gun proved it was capable of sub moa loads at 100 and then 200 yards. I then decided to try it at 400yds. I'd like to think that I'm a capable shooter and reloader. I've developed loads for many guns sometimes by knowing what to change other times by shear luck i guess. While I do have more to learn, I am confident in my ablilties and do not consider myself a novice.

I realize there are many variables but I am trying to learn whether to tweak the load or curse at myself.

 

[ohiohunter]

I'm still a little lost....

1) are the posted pictures the groups you are discussing?
2) a 15mph wind is not conducive to testing your firearm's capability.
3) your discussion is based on 2 groups for a total of 6 shots, not a valid data group

I will repeat what I asked already. Is the left target the one you are claiming to have a 4.5"+ group??

Shooting in high winds will not illustrate your gun's accuracy, it will however demonstrate how well you read the conditions.

 

[riemer]

The groups are example targets. I have shot the same loads at the different distances 3 times with the same result. The wind died down to under 5mph when the 400yd target was shot(left).
I didn't upload the 180 Berger groups which I refer to as getting a 4.5" group.
Both the 168 and 180 groups shot sub 1 Moa and seemed to "blow up" at 400yds. That's why I'm confused and looking for advice.

 

[ohiohunter]

Ok, 4.5" at 400yds on a 15mph day but presumably calm when shot from a factory 700. Yet you also got sub 4" groups also out of the same gun and you think something is wrong.

What is the contour of the barrel? how many shots were strung together? How heavy is your trigger? What is the quality of your glass?... So many factors PLUS the environmental factors of gusting 15mph. Did you have flags and pinwheels the entire length of 400yds?

Time to be realistic. Don't expect benchrest accuracy from a factory gun. You only commented on the one loose 3 shot group(worst) @ 400 and your best group at 200 when in fact you shot several groups ranging from sub moa to 1.25moa on a windy day.

Sounds like you want there to be a problem. If you must change your load I wouldn't venture more than +/-0.2gr or play with seating depth. Otherwise keep up the good work on the trigger end and stretch it out further on a more calm day.

I shoot with a guy who is 3rd in nation, world record holder at 500yds and he doesn't always shoot a perfect score at mid range fclass (3,5,600).. do you think he questions his load when 1or2 bullets stray from 1moa? Doubtful, he re-checks the conditions to figure out what he did wrong. Out of all of your 400yd groups over lapped, how many shots are out of moa vs moa and under??

 

[ShootnMathews]

The posted 400 yard group is about 5/8 MOA. Pretty good in my opinion for factory gun.

 

[jf239]

I would be looking into why you are only getting just over 3000fps with the 168s. I get that with the same bullet, powder, primer with 7 less gains of powder in just a 7mm remington mag. You are shooting a STW?

 

[Farmer Rob]

The piccy on the left looks like 2.7" at 400yards is .675 moa, the piccy on the right looks more like 2" at 200 yards sliding up at 45 degrees equalling 1moa, what problem?

 

[Beluebow]

From the 200yrd pic I would venture to say you need more work on your load. Although its showing .689 for width which is very respectable,, the vertical appears to be an inch or more and that's a no go.Throw some wind in on top of the vertical issue and your going to end up with patterns the farther you stretch it out.

 

[snowpro440]

The pic on the right shows more holes under the calipers. What gives ? Give that gun more powder then retest @100 then 400 ..........from what I see! MOA groups don't just fall apart after 200 yds , Its the shooter that can't read changing conditions and can't hold the rifle steady or cant squeeze the trigger the same.