Help!! Horizontal groups....

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by Canvsbk, May 9, 2012.

  1. Canvsbk

    Canvsbk Well-Known Member

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    So I won this Ruger M77 .25-06 as a door prize.....good for me. After quite a few attempts to get it to shoot pills from 85 to 115 grains I'm about to pull out my hair. It will shoot great groups up and down ( 1/2 to 3/4 ) but strings 'em out left and right as much as 2". I remember reading an article by Jack O conner about this issue but that was 40 years ago and his explanation escapes me.
    Anybody got any idea what's up here?
    Powder burn rate and amount of bullet jump doesn't seem to matter much.
    Thanks.....!
     
  2. barnesuser28

    barnesuser28 Well-Known Member

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    How far are you shooting from?
     

  3. Canvsbk

    Canvsbk Well-Known Member

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    100 yards - some wind but not much < 10 mph for sure
     
  4. Canvsbk

    Canvsbk Well-Known Member

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    I guess in all fairness I should mention that it shoots v max 75 gr inside of 3/4 every time. I would like the gun to shoot Nosler BT's which of course have a boat tail as opposed to the flat v max base.
     
  5. Trnelson

    Trnelson Well-Known Member

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    Kind of sounded like the barrel may be touching the stock at some point. Then I noticed your last post. My friend has a ruger just like yours that simply will not group with any weight boat tail bullet no matter the powder charge, primer, brass, seating depth. He had the barrel touching in one small place near the fore end. That was fixed by his gunsmith and it grouped better just nothing even MOA still at any range. Feed it any flat base bullet and it shoots right at MOA with everything but the 117 to 120 weight bullets with no regard to seating depth. He limits his shots to inside 300 and has taken several nice deer with it. They didnt seem to mind that it was 3" from the exact place he aims. He's had his to the smith several times with no improvement trying to chase down everything from recrowning the muzzle, to lapping the barrel, to checking fired brass for irregularity and casting the chamber. If you run into something post it up!! YMMV
     
  6. Canvsbk

    Canvsbk Well-Known Member

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    I'm headed to the range again in the morning. I've loaded up some 100 and 115's tight to the lands. If that doesn't help I guess I'll look for a flat based bullet a man can kill an antelope with and see where we're at then.
    Thanks ....I'll post further results.
     
  7. brentc

    brentc Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like it could be a bedding issue of sorts.
     
  8. Canvsbk

    Canvsbk Well-Known Member

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    After a trip to the range this morning I think there may be some hope yet. It appears that the slower burning powders are a big part of the problem. Both 4350 and 4831 continued to have groups under 3/4" tall and 2" or more wide. RL 19 & 22 both looked much better - right at 3/4". I will keep after this and report back!
     
  9. joe0121

    joe0121 Well-Known Member

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    Have you tried the ocw method?
     
  10. Canvsbk

    Canvsbk Well-Known Member

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    Ok, so here it is. It's all about speed. I dropped back on my charge with RL19, not because of pressure but to slow her down a bit and I upped the charge of 4831. I went down a grain at a time with th RL19 and up 1/2 with 4831. After the 3rd go around of this up and down it was becoming quite obvious. I've been watching for the bad stuff in regards to pressure but the faster I go the tighter the groups get and the slower I go the more they spread out horizontally. I shall continue along this path until my rifle says stop. Current groups at a 100 yards are right at 3/4 give or take a touch with the 4831 and I'm a happy camper........
     
  11. Trnelson

    Trnelson Well-Known Member

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    IMR 4831 or H4831?? H4831 is also available as H4831sc which will flow through your powder measure better with less deviation in charge weight. I use the SC version in my 6.5/06. I still weigh every charge but I can drop 98% and trickle the rest with reliable results. YMMV
     
  12. Hookturnr

    Hookturnr Well-Known Member

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    In my 20 yrs. playing with various factory and custom 25/06's I've found 4831 as fast as the rifle will let you push it has ALWAYS been good medicine. Always pushing 115/117/120gr. pills. I've tried a ton of powders and bullets and I just keep coming back to H4831SC in the 53gr. range with 115gr. nosler BT, 115gr Berger VLD, 117gr. Hornady SST. My current incarnation in 25/06 is a Browning Stainless Stalker with BOSS and it'll shoot 1/2-5/8MOA out to 400yds(furthest I've taken it to) all day long with 53.3gr. H4831SC lit by a Federal GM210M pushing either the VLD or BT at .070 off the lands in Remington/Hornady brass. You definitely need to get them cooking out of that thing then just sit back and smile!
     
  13. Canvsbk

    Canvsbk Well-Known Member

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    Got it! Thanks, I'll keep that in mind as I continue to work my up.
     
  14. 7 loader

    7 loader Well-Known Member

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    My M77 in 7 rem mag had same prob. Alittle time and a dowell rod with sand paper floated the barrel. Now it shoots 1'' groups at 200 yds. Factory tube for now.