Help on caliber

[Skimbleshanks]

Dremeling 1/8th inch on a Magazine isnt as invasive as Milling the rear of the mag and shortening bolt stop.You know that, yet you still want to argue a point. No data has been cherry picked, my argument has always just been factual. And yes, It would prove something lol. Ballistics prove everything. Little more here are there all add up to something. Does everyone here require it? NO. But this is a LONG RANGE HUNTING FORUM. This aint TEDS TARGET PRACTICE down in Virginia shooting 150+ MAX. You (I) come to this site to talk LRH and ballistical data, DOPE charts and Deer Farts. Leave Grandpas 30-06 talk for 24HRCampfire...

Long range is only part of hunting. The first year i had a nightforce scope i shot my deer at 21 FEET. Oh also when I get home ill have to tell this rifle that the mag box has to go cause I guess what, used a dremel and about 20 minutes of my time to install the mag box. It's a 300 RUM by the way. Pleasectell me of a situation where a 300 RUM would fail where a 28 would bringvthe game down. There isnt one most likely. They are cut from the exact same cloth. Both small bore diameter. Both overbore. Both shoot the heaviest bullets at 2900-3100ish. In fact the advantage probably does go to the RUM with 215-230s if you have to shoot through heavy bone. More bullet weight to be shredded and have something left over to keep penetrating. A 195 would probably work just fine 99% of the time though.

 

[Azdbllung]

Long range is only part of hunting. The first year i had a nightforce scope i shot my deer at 21 FEET. Oh also when I get home ill have to tell this rifle that the mag box has to go cause I guess what, used a dremel and about 20 minutes of my time to install the mag box. It's a 300 RUM by the way. Pleasectell me of a situation where a 300 RUM would fail where a 28 would bringvthe game down. There isnt one most likely. They are cut from the exact same cloth. Both small bore diameter. Both overbore. Both shoot the heaviest bullets at 2900-3100ish. In fact the advantage probably does go to the RUM with 215-230s if you have to shoot through heavy bone. More bullet weight to be shredded and have something left over to keep penetrating. A 195 would probably work just fine 99% of the time though.

Ok...

 

[Orange Dust]

IF you believe diameter is king, you are mistaken. Growing in size isn't necessarily even a good thing. The larger you grow, the longer you must go to achieve those hi BC's. The larger/longer the bullet, the faster you MUST shoot it to expand in a similar form as a smaller bullet, much less forceful customization to even load those bullets. This adds even MORE recoil. If the goal is to kill, then tissue disruption, vital organ disruption, nervous system disruption would be the target, not solely penetration. Kinetic Energy is the only factor you seem to consider. Your are not considering Potential Energy whatsoever. So, what if a 215 .30 cal has more KE out of the Muzzle over a 195 .284 shooting the same speed? The 195 .284 carries WAY more PE due to exact reason your stating is hindering it...lol. The KE isnt much different, but the PE due to the diameter + Velocity + KE is in fact MORE than a .30 cal in MOST circumstances. The benefits almost ALWAYS lean to the .284. Less wind drift. Less drop. Lower recoil. The list goes on and on. There is a sweet spot in ballistics at the .284 that most don't realize.

For you to NEVER recommend a .284 to anyone is mind blowing, seeing that a .284 technically is better at Tissue disruption than a 30 cal assuming, like you stated, we are comparing apples to apples lol. Not to mention everything else I just touched on.

If you want complete pass through, shoot a .30 cal. If you want to blow up the nervous system, you shoot a .284. NUFF SAID

Ive got to add this, and ill bet we even will agree, or at least find middle ground. There is a cartridge i have and it has seen a lot of country. Not the most powerful, seldom spoken of these days. It is the best balance of killing power, range and recoil i have ever used. Doesnt need a brake, muzzle blast is mild in a 26" barrel. Will kill a long ways with 168 and 175gr bullets. What is it??? It carries the old style out of favor belt, the crazy venturi choulder, lasts forever, doesnt build carbon in the throat, 7mm Weatherby. A wildcat that did all of this even better, most of you have never heard of was the 7mm Mashburn super magnum. I'm going to build another one of those with an 8 twist. I still have dies. I really think this is where you are comming from with the 28. It is more shootable than the rum. The rum will shoot a 230 faster than a 28 will shoot a 195. My 28 will shoot 162's right at 3300 accurately. My 190gr rum load is over 3400. It is very destructive. It also kicks exactly like an unbraked 7bee. The 28 is more like a 7-08. This shootability does not go unnoticed, And should not be ignored. Is the 28 better for lr hunting? Maybe. Is it more powerful no. I will say if the 28 is not enough gun, most likely the 300 rum isnt either. They are both awesome lr cartridges that will kill anything on this side of the planet..

 

[Ingwe]

we will see. If making the case shorter and fatter and adding maybe 50fps tops to the STW somehow gives it a mystical power over the rum. I will tell you this, i pity the test subjects. I am really hoping you are wrong, because i had to gutshoot whitetails inside 400 with 190ABLR's to keep from blowing them in half. Built the 28 to drop back down to STW power so i could shoot them in the ribs again. You need all this power way out there, but it is a pain to deal with if one shows up at normal hunting ranges. I try and set up to avoid this but, for some stupid reason wild animals arent always where they are supposed to be.

You purposely "gut shot" an animal? Is that how much you respect an animal?

That is seriously F**ked-up and you should be ashamed of yourself.

Ingwe,watch the language - WARNING

 

[Orange Dust]

You purposely "gut shot" an animal? Is that how much you respect an animal?

That is seriously F**ked-up and you should be ashamed of yourself.

Instant kill. Damage is similar to a 25-06 with 75gr bullets on a coyote. Lungshot will ruin both shoulders. Little too much gun inside 400 with that load. Great at 600 with baseball to softball exits. The ablr, although bonded is pretty soft, expands down to about 1400. Great lr bullet. Nasty at normal ranges. Bullets that arent very destructive at short range usually dont perform very well at long range.

 

[Ingwe]

Instant kill. Damage is similar to a 25-06 with 75gr bullets on a coyote. Lungshot will ruin both shoulders. Little too much gun inside 400 with that load. Great at 600 with baseball to softball exits. The ablr, although bonded is pretty soft, expands down to about 1400. Great lr bullet. Nasty at normal ranges. Bullets that arent very destructive at short range usually dont perform very well at long range.

Nah, not buying it sorry. A deer isn't a Coyote, Prairie Dog, or other pest or varmint. A deer deserves more than that. If you destroy the shoulders so be it but to purposefully gut shot an animal is not what we do. Even if they are dead instantly, which I doubt, I can imagine the scene....just what anti's envision US to be.

You unwittingly just gave a great example of how some guys have blurred the lines on what is hunting is and what is "shooting". The concept of shooting animals at 1,000+ yards, focusing, and obsessing on equipment, got many of you away from what hunting and the tradition and lifestyle is all about. You have "progressed" so far that your equipment is dictating that you should shoot a game animal in the guts to avoid destroying both shoulders...does this sound Kosher to you?

Everyone is a "tactical shooter" now who loves to speak the lingo, have the gear, the beard, and the Molon Labe Shirt with the folding knife in the right front pocket....so that onlookers might think that they are "operators" LOL. Yea, we all saw "American Sniper."

I am NOT directing all of this towards our friend Orange Dust...just the gut shooting part of my rant

I think that some of us need to think about what we are doing and put it into perspective, since we owe a great deal of respect to the animals we are killing, as well as maintaining our image and dignity towards our tradition....we are the only country on Earth where one can buy a firearm freely, buy a hunting license, and wander millions of acres of wilderness freely and for FREE.

Let's keep the marginal shots to steel and not fool around with game animals.

 

[Orange Dust]

Nah, not buying it sorry. A deer isn't a Coyote, Prairie Dog, or other pest or varmint. A deer deserves more than that. If you destroy the shoulders so be it but to purposefully gut shot an animal is not what we do. Even if they are dead instantly, which I doubt, I can imagine the scene....just what anti's envision US to be.

You unwittingly just gave a great example of how some guys have blurred the lines on what is hunting is and what is "shooting". The concept of shooting animals at 1,000+ yards, focusing, and obsessing on equipment, got many of you away from what hunting and the tradition and lifestyle is all about. You have "progressed" so far that your equipment is dictating that you should shoot a game animal in the guts to avoid destroying both shoulders...does this sound Kosher to you?

Everyone is a "tactical shooter" now who loves to speak the lingo, have the gear, the beard, and the Molon Labe Shirt with the folding knife in the right front pocket....so that onlookers might think that they are "operators" LOL. Yea, we all saw "American Sniper."

I am NOT directing all of this towards our friend Orange Dust...just the gut shooting part of my rant

I think that some of us need to think about what we are doing and put it into perspective, since we owe a great deal of respect to the animals we are killing, as well as maintaining our image and dignity towards our tradition....we are the only country on Earth where one can buy a firearm freely, buy a hunting license, and wander millions of acres of wilderness freely and for FREE.

Let's keep the marginal shots to steel and not fool around with game animals.

Cant upload a picture from my phone. You have to aim in the bottom third right in the middle. Bullet will destroy everything with about a 1' radius. Destroys the lungs, and most everything else within that area. Saves all the meat. As range increases you can work your way forward. You can aim for the middle of the lungs at about 300. You have to be sure and not hit any significant bone. High velocity and a big gun will really destroy a deer if you are not careful when they are close. Some folks will carry two loads to combat this problem. I tried it for awhile. Too much to remember and do for me. The RUM is really too much gun for whitetails at normal ranges. I've shot a bunch with them. It really hammers them way out there though. I usually just let them walk when hunting with it if they get close anymore unless just shooting one to eat at camp. If you havent experienced this problem you havent shot much game with big fast guns. I didnt get a shot with the 28 this morning. I dont think it will be nearly as bad. My stw's weren't. I shot 5 deer with the rum last year and only blew up the first one. It was quartering a little tward me. Result was about like a prairie dog shot with a Swift.

 

[Orange Dust]

If you doubt me go look at the thread on do bigger guns compensate for poor shots or something of the sort. Its recent. Look at the end of the thread the picture of that deer is posted. Look at it and get back with me.

 

[FEENIX]

IBTL!

 

[Ingwe]

If you doubt me go look at the thread on do bigger guns compensate for poor shots or something of the sort. Its recent. Look at the end of the thread the picture of that deer is posted. Look at it and get back with me.

I don't doubt you at all my friend, and I'm sure that what you are saying is true, just that shooting a deer in the guts on purpose doesn't sit well with me as a hunter and I bet that most hunters would agree with me as well....no offense to you, that's just MY opinion.

Fwiw: why don't you hunt with a less powerful gun?