roaddog1m
Well-Known Member
Ya, that would be nice.
Future H.A.T B.C. Test shoot
- Thread starter GREYGHOSTt
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Ya, that would be nice.
My 338 Lapua Magnum Improved rifle is inbound and will be delivered early next week. To whet your interest, here is a picture of a dummy round using blown out brass from the same reamer and one of the 338 7 caliber long ZA bullets seated to roughly proper length. The tip of the ZA has been flattened by my gunsmith to prevent injury...as when I shook it out of the box it hit my palm point first and drew blood...nasty and TRUE.
Here she is on the left, next to the 7WSM and 284 Winchester (with 180 Berger's seated to their shooting length in my 7WSM and my brother's .284 Winchester.. On the left is a piece of new 338LM brass and a blow-out case to my improved ramer design.
The 338 total length is right at 4.135 inches
Jeffvn
That 338L AI is a kick *** looking cartridge,Jeff.I'm glad the wait is finally over for you. !!!
LOL,If you need some help breaking that thing in give me a buzz.
Steve
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JeffVN
Well-Known Member
Steve
Thanks for the response I may take you up on that so that I can show you my spot in the desert. I took possession of the rifle on Saturday. This is what she looks like. Manners T2-A in Coyote Brown, Barnard PL 338 single-shot action, 32" tube, March 6-60X scope w/ ranging reticle, and a removable Badger FTE break....so that I can thread on the AAC Titan Supressor that is on order for it.... :-D. The rounds shown with it are the 338 LM Improved with 7 Caliber ZA, my 7WSM with Berger 180, and a .308 with 170 Lapua Lockbase.
I've not had it to the range as yet, and hope to start load development as soon as possible on the ZX 7 CAliber bullets and then on the GS Custom 295 after that.
Jeff
Thanks for the response I may take you up on that so that I can show you my spot in the desert. I took possession of the rifle on Saturday. This is what she looks like. Manners T2-A in Coyote Brown, Barnard PL 338 single-shot action, 32" tube, March 6-60X scope w/ ranging reticle, and a removable Badger FTE break....so that I can thread on the AAC Titan Supressor that is on order for it.... :-D. The rounds shown with it are the 338 LM Improved with 7 Caliber ZA, my 7WSM with Berger 180, and a .308 with 170 Lapua Lockbase.
I've not had it to the range as yet, and hope to start load development as soon as possible on the ZX 7 CAliber bullets and then on the GS Custom 295 after that.
Jeff
JeffVN
Well-Known Member
I have no idea, as the BC is unknown; but if its only 1.00 as a G-1 then we'll be looking at subsonic transition at around 2,500 yards acording to the JBM calculator that I just ran it on. The inputs that I used were BC of 1.00, weight of 300 grains, altitude 2,200 ft, temp 75 degerees, humidity 20%, pressure 29.92 in Hg., velocity 2,950 fps.
The other numbers are just scary low as far as wind drift and elevation to reach distances...but I'll save the speculation until after I get a chance to test this rig.
Really rough I know, but its using the velocity that I am planning on and the rest are accurate paramaters from the range where it will be tested. Obviously, the range is reduced at seal elvel.
One can safely say Dayum...if that turns out to be accurate.
One thing I can tell you. I can and will get some good data from my home range at Boulder Rifle and pistol club. If she is shooting well, I'll get muzzel as well as some intermediate velocities from 500 meters and possibly 900 yards; plus the required elevation in MOA from my 100 yard zero to each. We can back out some BC information from that information.
Steve...email me and we talk about dates for a desert visit when this is up and running...maybe you bring your .375 and we'll hammer some steel out to 3,000 ..
Jeff
The other numbers are just scary low as far as wind drift and elevation to reach distances...but I'll save the speculation until after I get a chance to test this rig.
Really rough I know, but its using the velocity that I am planning on and the rest are accurate paramaters from the range where it will be tested. Obviously, the range is reduced at seal elvel.
One can safely say Dayum...if that turns out to be accurate.
One thing I can tell you. I can and will get some good data from my home range at Boulder Rifle and pistol club. If she is shooting well, I'll get muzzel as well as some intermediate velocities from 500 meters and possibly 900 yards; plus the required elevation in MOA from my 100 yard zero to each. We can back out some BC information from that information.
Steve...email me and we talk about dates for a desert visit when this is up and running...maybe you bring your .375 and we'll hammer some steel out to 3,000 ..
Jeff
jmden
Well-Known Member
Jeff,
Forgive me if this had been asked already, as I don't recall, but would you measure the ogive, bearing surface and boatail lengths on that Z7 rocket for us? Perhaps a pic of it by itself next to a 300SMK or something in comparison? I wonder how close the dimensions are to the new Berger Hybrid, now that we have some solid bc numbers on that--might give us a better comparison.
Jon
JeffVN
Well-Known Member
Sorry I can't. The nose of the pill is so long that it will not fit into my calipers. It bottoms out before hitting the ogive.
JeffVN
JeffVN
noel carlson
Well-Known Member
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- Mar 3, 2009
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General announcement;
I will be contacting some individuals directly with this same information. Last week I was notified that the Saab LOMAH system will not be available for our use this coming June.
I did not realize how new this product was, but it's production is only now being ramped up in anticipation of U.S. distribution, and they are insisting on sending a technical team with the prototype equipment. Manpower cannot be allocated for this event for another eight, to twelve months.
Rescheduling updates will be posted on this thread.
Best,
Noel
I will be contacting some individuals directly with this same information. Last week I was notified that the Saab LOMAH system will not be available for our use this coming June.
I did not realize how new this product was, but it's production is only now being ramped up in anticipation of U.S. distribution, and they are insisting on sending a technical team with the prototype equipment. Manpower cannot be allocated for this event for another eight, to twelve months.
Rescheduling updates will be posted on this thread.
Best,
Noel
Noel,
I hope you don't catch too much grief over this. After we waited more than one year longer for the Berger 338s than was originally projected, it seems like we're a testy bunch & running short on patience. In spite of no velocity recording equipment, are the guys still going to shoot?
I hope you don't catch too much grief over this. After we waited more than one year longer for the Berger 338s than was originally projected, it seems like we're a testy bunch & running short on patience. In spite of no velocity recording equipment, are the guys still going to shoot?
noel carlson
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2009
- Messages
- 214
Hello Paul,
Yes, we will still be doing the shoot, but the absence of the LOMAH system really handicaps us in terms of impartial determination of extreme range projectile velocities. I did not want other projectile suppliers to feel obligated in light of that. In the interim, Bryan Litz is still willing to derive useable BC's of the ZA line for publication.
As far as the product availability delay, I am pleased to pass on news of a verbal approval, from the BATF, to make these publicly available. At this point, I am only waiting on the arrival of the physical license. You will be able to purchase them very soon, weeks most likely.
Yes, we will still be doing the shoot, but the absence of the LOMAH system really handicaps us in terms of impartial determination of extreme range projectile velocities. I did not want other projectile suppliers to feel obligated in light of that. In the interim, Bryan Litz is still willing to derive useable BC's of the ZA line for publication.
As far as the product availability delay, I am pleased to pass on news of a verbal approval, from the BATF, to make these publicly available. At this point, I am only waiting on the arrival of the physical license. You will be able to purchase them very soon, weeks most likely.
JeffVN
Well-Known Member
I disagree with Noel. I am extremely skeptical of anyone's ability to generate any useful data in the absence of an end point velocity, at distance.
Granted, some of that BC-related information can be obtained by getting a muzzle velocity and then shooting through a chronograph at 100, 200, 500 yards, for example. However, those distancese do not require a trip to the desert with all of its incumbent hassels and equipment.
With due respect to all of our proposed shooters, I do not think anyone is capable of putting 5 rounds through a 18" wide and 18" tall triangle at 2,500 yards and NOT shooting the chrograph that is trying to record the information. I hazzard a guess how many rounds you would have to shoot to get 5 rounds to pass though that chronogrph at 2,000 + yards in the moderate gusty winds that prevail on this desert site. More importantly, give the downward angle of the bullets at that distance, a standard chronograph set up is virtually guaranteed not to work, unless you can set it to the proper angle to capture the bullet passing though the trap.
That was the benefit to the proposed equipment...a 6 foot tall x 6 foot wide method of capturing velocity data.
If we do not have the velocity at distance (at 1,500, 1,800, 2,200, or 2,500 yards) information from a reliable source, then we are left in exactly the same position that we are in now... discussing anticdotal information about the scope elevation that was required to reach a certain distance. No one reading this thread is satisfied with this method.
If people want to gather together to shoot long distances in the desert that is one thing; this was supposed to be a scientific bullet BC data generating trip, not simply a desert "fun" shoot.
I am not happy that we do not have the equipment we were counting on. I agreed to help with and participate in a BC data gathering test. Unless someone can explain how we can still generate usefull velocity information at distances, I see this as having degenerated to a desert "fun" shoot.
JeffVN
Granted, some of that BC-related information can be obtained by getting a muzzle velocity and then shooting through a chronograph at 100, 200, 500 yards, for example. However, those distancese do not require a trip to the desert with all of its incumbent hassels and equipment.
With due respect to all of our proposed shooters, I do not think anyone is capable of putting 5 rounds through a 18" wide and 18" tall triangle at 2,500 yards and NOT shooting the chrograph that is trying to record the information. I hazzard a guess how many rounds you would have to shoot to get 5 rounds to pass though that chronogrph at 2,000 + yards in the moderate gusty winds that prevail on this desert site. More importantly, give the downward angle of the bullets at that distance, a standard chronograph set up is virtually guaranteed not to work, unless you can set it to the proper angle to capture the bullet passing though the trap.
That was the benefit to the proposed equipment...a 6 foot tall x 6 foot wide method of capturing velocity data.
If we do not have the velocity at distance (at 1,500, 1,800, 2,200, or 2,500 yards) information from a reliable source, then we are left in exactly the same position that we are in now... discussing anticdotal information about the scope elevation that was required to reach a certain distance. No one reading this thread is satisfied with this method.
If people want to gather together to shoot long distances in the desert that is one thing; this was supposed to be a scientific bullet BC data generating trip, not simply a desert "fun" shoot.
I am not happy that we do not have the equipment we were counting on. I agreed to help with and participate in a BC data gathering test. Unless someone can explain how we can still generate usefull velocity information at distances, I see this as having degenerated to a desert "fun" shoot.
JeffVN
jmden
Well-Known Member
How 'about a pic next to a 300SMK? Vernier dial calipers should easily measure the ogive length, albeit not exactly, and that' OK. I was just looking for a rough ogive measurement. I know you can't get it exact with them, but 'close enough' will work.
I hope there is a way to do this shoot and gather the data originally planned.
MontanaRifleman
Well-Known Member
Would shooting through a 18" x 18" window at 1000 yds (give or take) be too much too ask?
Put the chrony body behind a steel plate and shoot through the window. 1000 yd data should be good enough for determining G7 BC's, which should easily be translated to any range.
Of course, there is always the possibility of hitting the vertical rods and light diffusers.
And from looking at the overhead views of the shooting area, i'm not sure there is a 1000 yd option?
Just thinking out loud.
Put the chrony body behind a steel plate and shoot through the window. 1000 yd data should be good enough for determining G7 BC's, which should easily be translated to any range.
Of course, there is always the possibility of hitting the vertical rods and light diffusers.
And from looking at the overhead views of the shooting area, i'm not sure there is a 1000 yd option?
Just thinking out loud.
