HAT Test Shoot, Selling Popcorn....

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by MontanaRifleman, Feb 3, 2010.

  1. MontanaRifleman

    MontanaRifleman Well-Known Member

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    ..... and Len should be selling tickets to the HAT threads.

    I didn't want to detract from the "arrangements" being attempted in the HAT test shoot thread so I decided to start this thread in an attempt encourage RG Henson to make every effort he can to demonstrate the performnce capabilities of his HAT bullets in an open and public shoot. I am especially interested in how they perform under same conditons against Noel Carlson's bullets as well as know performers like the SMKs, Berger's and the like.

    I hope this shooting event really happens.

    -Mark
     
  2. roaddog1m

    roaddog1m Well-Known Member

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    Call me crazy but I don't think it will happen. I'd really like to know what his bullets can do.

    Tom
     

  3. B23

    B23 Well-Known Member

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    IMHO, the only chance of them agreeing on ANYTHING, is that they are NEVER going to agree on ANYTHING.

    Maybe that's where it should end. Agree to disagree and move on cause the chance of a mutually agreed upon BC number just ain't gonna happen!!!!

    Ummm, can I get a beer with that popcorn??? :cool:
     
  4. Chas1

    Chas1 Well-Known Member

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    Hopefully the test will take place...whether there's any agreement on BC or not at least it will be interesting to see either the results or the dog and pony show that leads up to a test not taking place...I'm rooting for some results.
     
  5. MontanaRifleman

    MontanaRifleman Well-Known Member

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    I would also like to see some results after all this hoopla.

    It seems to me if I was a bullet maker with a .338 265 gr bullet having a coservative BC of .9 I would take every oportunity I could get to publicize it performance. A bullet like that wouls imply be un matched by anything on the planet. It's lighter weight would give it more velocity than the 300 SMK and it's higher velocity would leave the SMK far, far behind.

    I hope Mr Henson proves me wrong but I dont think he is very anxious for a public and open, side by side comprison with Noel's bullets, nor the SMK's and Bergers. Such a demonstration may likely show his bullets probaly perform about the same as the commercially availble SMK's and Bergers.

    This is a perfect opportunity to put this all to rest.
     
  6. RockyMtnMT

    RockyMtnMT Official LRH Sponsor

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    It looks like it's all falling apart. The show down is on the low down.

    Steve
     
  7. MontanaRifleman

    MontanaRifleman Well-Known Member

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    Well it looks like it's gonna happen anyway with or without RG and/or LV

    Steve, you should grab some of your GS 177's and head to Las Vegas for the party :D gun)
     
  8. RockyMtnMT

    RockyMtnMT Official LRH Sponsor

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    It would be fun to be there. But you know how it is. Perhaps they will shoot some there. I still don't know exactly what it is they have going on.

    As far as the 177's, they are not exactly mine, but so far for me the published bc's have got me on target out to 1000. I have come to the conclusion over the last week of bc discussions, that that may be all one can ask for. Get on target at long range and do your own personal tweaking if necessary.

    Steve
     
  9. J E Custom

    J E Custom Well-Known Member

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    Not to be sarcastic but everyone that is concerned about the HAT or any other bullets BCs
    should just buy some and test them themselves in there rifle.

    Bullets shoot differently in each barrel and the only way to find out is to test them your self.

    I have never found any bullet that perfectly matched the listed BCs they have been + or -
    the listed BC.

    I have been around for a long time and seen the method for measuring BCs change but
    the bullet shot the same no mater what changes were made.

    No matter what claims are made by any manufacture about there product ultimately The
    consumer will find the truth and with all bullets some work better than others for different
    shooters.

    So let's encourage people to continue to develop new products that may benefit us and let
    the "Chips Fall Where They May''.

    Just my opinion
    J E CUSTOM
     
  10. edge

    edge Well-Known Member

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    IMO, I don't think that anyone would dispute that everyone would get the same exact BC.

    However, if the bullet maker claims a BC of 0.900 "conservatively" and that does NOT seem feasible, then why should everyone just spend their money to test these if the maker does NOT seem willing to share the testing results!

    Why would Noel waste his time if he can't report what he finds here?
    It seemed from the other post that all present were going to have to sign non disclosure forms and that GHOST would control all data dissemination!

    Perhaps this is NOT the case, but it sounded that way.

    edge.
     
  11. Chas1

    Chas1 Well-Known Member

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  12. MontanaRifleman

    MontanaRifleman Well-Known Member

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    JE, I have absolutley no problem at all with people buying them and testing on their own which is something I've said several times now. But tell me... what is wrong with asking for an independendant verification of these bullet's performance? Not everyone wants to spend the money, time and effort to find out for themselves. Mr Henson has offered a very good guarantee but there is a lot more to testing bullets than just the cash spent on them. I myself have considered trying his .308 cal 180's and in fact, bought some of the first generation bullets from another member. If however, a credible source, such as Bryan Litz, tested these bullets for their BC and found them to be less than the high .6 range I simply would not try them because they wouldn't provide me with enough advantage over current offerings. It would save me a lot of time, trouble and expense, not to mention barrel life although I'm not real concerned with burning out my factory 300 RUM. But if i had a custom match grade barrel in a throat torching cartridge it would be nice to know what the actual performance potential of the bullet was before sending 50-100 rounds down the tube.

    It's true that shooter's will find variations in listed BC's, but is that because the listed BC is wrong or the shooter's method and equipement are inadequate? The individual effects of a rifle on a bullet's BC are so minimal as to be insignificant. I generally believe published BC's, and I put a great deal of faith in Bryan's work above any other source. Having accurate BC data is a very useful tool for LR work.

    So I ask again... why not conduct these tests? There is just no good reason why not. These will be open tests for all the world to see and judge the results and bullets for themselves for what they are or are not. We have a chance to put to rest all the specualtions and get the facts.

    I've said it once and I'll say it again. If I was a bullet maker with a bullet that can do what is claimed of the 265 HAT, I would be chomping at the bit to show the world what it can do in a very public and open demonstration. Instead, what I see is a very shadowy figure void of transparency and openess trying make this all as difficult as possible and on top of everything, suggesting that the results not be published. That just blows my mind. Can you imagine? Why on earth would he not want the results published? The only possible reason I can think of is because the results may be unfavorble to his bullets.

    In any case, his efforts to muddy the waters and hide the truth have been trumped. The decision to participate is totally his now, but that will not stop his bullets from being fired. I hope he does participate, but in the end it wont change what the bullet can or can not do.

    -Mark
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2010
  13. eddybo

    eddybo Well-Known Member

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    Is this shoot open to me? I might be able to make it. When, where, max distances, known or unknown distances. Any of the Hat detractors willing to pitch in on diesel for the trip?

    Since I was the guy who sent Bryan some of the HATs I feel sorta obligated to follow through.
     
  14. MontanaRifleman

    MontanaRifleman Well-Known Member

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    I am sure you would be very welcome. Noel is the person to contact.