First Velocity test with the Wildcat .224" 100 gr ULD RBBT.....

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by Fiftydriver, Sep 20, 2005.

  1. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

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    First Velocity test with the Wildcat .224\" 100 gr ULD RBBT.....

    To all interested,

    Just finished up the first velocity test using the Wildcat .224", 100 gr ULD RBBT. The test platform was on of my Extreme V-Block rifles in 22-6mm AI with a 30" Lilja 1-8, 3 groove barrel. This barrel has proven very hard on 80 gr match bullets at any velocity over 3400 fps but at or under that it is an honest 1/5 moa rifle at 500 yards.

    Well the standard load for this rifle is 46.0 gr Rl-22 under any 80 gr match ULD or VLD.

    I jumped up on the burn rate chart and selected Rl-25 and dropped the powder charge to 42.0 gr. Only loaded one and seated the bullet well off the lands for a pressure cushion.

    Leaky primer!!!

    Then switched to the slower yet Retumbo again with a 42 gr powder charge. I wanted to go lower but the load density was so low I was very cautious of this. I would to be honest rather have a bit to much pressure then excessively low pressures.

    Again, leaky primer!!!

    I then tried AA8700 again with 42.0 gr and at that shot the primer was VERY round and there was dramatic powder fouling on the neck and shoulder of the case. The primer pocket was also still virgin tight.

    Now we had a starting point even though I felt 8700 was to slow for this application I wanted to see what it was doing over the chrono.

    Here are the results:

    43.0 gr............2618 fps
    44.0 gr............2674 fps
    45.0 gr............2723 fps
    46.0 gr............2757 fps
    47.0 gr............2794 fps
    Let barrel cool completely
    48.0 gr............2870 fps
    49.0 gr............2917 fps
    50.0 gr............2985 fps
    51.0 gr............3035 fps
    Break to load up more test ammo, all primer pockets to this point were unchanged from original loading.
    52.0 gr............3028 fps
    53.0 gr............3112 fps
    54.0 gr............3149 fps
    55.0 gr............3149 fps
    56.0 gr............3240 fps
    Break to let barrel cool and load more test loads. Still all primer pockets to this point tight as virgin cases.
    57.0 gr............3289 fps
    58.0 gr............3379 fps Sticky case extraction
    59.0 gr............3410 fps Sticky bolt lift, sticky extraction.

    In checking the primer pockets, the 57.0 gr load was still very tight. At 58.0 gr it was beginning to loosed noticably and at 59.0 gr it was very loose. So in two grains it went from virgin tight to basically blown. THis is typical with the extremely long baring surface bullets of this design.

    As such, in these conditions, roughly 75 degrees, I consider the 56.0 gr load the top max load for this list of componants. Personally I would use the 55.0 gr load at 3200 fps and never look back with this huge 22 cal bullet.

    I have no idea what kind of accuracy this 1-8 barrel will produce with this bullet. I was hiding from the 40 mph wind and only able to shoot 25 yards where there was simply a small jagged hole from the shots but as soon as the wind dies down I will be trying the 55 gr load at longer ranges to see if the 1-8 will handle this bullet.

    My personal opinion is that it will but I am certainly not 100% confident on that one.

    Basically this is a warm up for testing my 224 Allen Mag with this bullet. I want to see if the 1-8 will stabilize this bullet at 22-6mm AI velocities and if so it will work perfectly well for the much larger AM.

    I was actually expecting to top out in the 3200 fps range with this rifle and was happy to see mid 3200 fps levels being reached with what I believe is a good safe top load level.

    As such I will make my first prediction for the 224 Allen Mag and say it will hit 3500 fps with this bullet in a +28" barrel... We will see.

    What do you all think??

    Kirby Allen(50)
     
  2. Mikecr

    Mikecr Well-Known Member

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    Re: First Velocity test with the Wildcat .224\" 100 gr ULD RBBT.....

    How bout some measurements for your bullets? I'll try &amp; figure your stability.
    OAL
    Nose length
    BT length
    BT end dia

    Hitting paper straight, even at 25yds, is encouraging. Also, it probably helps being at 3500'and 75degs.

    8700 may be slow, but if you can hit on something with it, I'd use it. It's the coolest of powders, and would likely extend barrel life quite a bit. With this one, your going to need all the help you can get there.

    I bet the BC on that thing is killer.
     

  3. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

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    Re: First Velocity test with the Wildcat .224\" 100 gr ULD RBBT.....

    Mikecr,

    OAL: 1.300"
    Nose length: 0.600"
    BT length: 0.150"
    BT end diameter: 0.165"

    Yes 8700 is a very good choice. I also feel this would be THE powder for the 22-284 with this heavy bullet and I also feel this bullet would bring new life to the 22-284 and 22-06 wildcats.

    As for the 224 Allen Mag, we will see, its dramatically larger then any of these others so my sights are set on WC872 to see what happens.

    Thanks for running the stability test.

    Kirby Allen(50)
     
  4. Mikecr

    Mikecr Well-Known Member

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    Re: First Velocity test with the Wildcat .224\" 100 gr ULD RBBT.....

    Well running a couple programs it looks like the ICAO BC (G1)is ~.590 local BC ~.700
    But stability is gonna be a serious problem in 8tw. Even up there. Your gonna need 7tw just like a 90JLK. But worse, I would be surprised if the bullet can handle the RPMs of a 7tw @ 3200fps or greater.
    Just my prediction. But I think you have a 100yd Shotgun.
     
  5. goodgrouper

    goodgrouper Well-Known Member

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    Re: First Velocity test with the Wildcat .224\" 100 gr ULD RBBT.....

    Sounds very encouraging Kirby.

    That bullet should give you honest 1500 yard capability if it will shoot straight.

    What is the estimated bc did you say?
    How long is the throat in your rifle you tested these in? Was there quite a bit of space that the bullet was occupying inside the case?
     
  6. Larry Morris

    Larry Morris Active Member

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    Re: First Velocity test with the Wildcat .224\" 100 gr ULD RBBT.....

    Kirby,
    Man – you don’t waste any time when you say you are going to develop a load.
    You must have a range outside your back door.

    I bought a can of Retumbo but removed the 1:8 barrel before opening it up.
    Gave it away to 6-06 and he is having good luck with it.

    You have already saved me a lot of time in what you did just today.

    I agree with Mike that hitting the paper straight at 25 yds. caught my attention.

    I didn’t think the wind blew in Montana. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif I know better since I lived in Havre for 2 years but I never saw the wind blow anywhere like it does in Cut Bank.

    Well, I had better get Richards email address ready. Looks like I’m going to have to order some bullets.

    Larry
     
  7. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

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    Re: First Velocity test with the Wildcat .224\" 100 gr ULD RBBT.....

    Mikecr,

    Heading out right now to see what happens on target at 100 yards, will report on the results. Its about 40 degrees so it will be a good test for this 1-8 barrel.

    Kirby Allen(50)
     
  8. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

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    Re: First Velocity test with the Wildcat .224\" 100 gr ULD RBBT.....

    GG,

    Initial BC predictions are in the .620 to .650 range. We will see!!

    These are predictions everyone so please no flaming yet /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif!!

    Kirby Allen(50)
     
  9. brianwinzor

    brianwinzor Well-Known Member

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    Re: First Velocity test with the Wildcat .224\" 100 gr ULD RBBT.....

    Kirby, Great to hear that you got 3200+ fps using 8700 with the 100 grain Wildcat, as I was planning to use my supply of H870 with them once the bullets arive and my rifle gets built.

    However, some of those test loads with Re25 and H Retumbo that gave leaky primers at 42.0 grains have me mystified.

    I found in my recent test with the 25/06AI with the 142 grain ULD, that at maximum pressure, HRetumbo was only 4.0 grains faster burning than H870. Using that experience as a basis, and that you believed that 56.0 grains of 8700 was about maximum, I would have thought that about 50.0- 51.0 grains of HRetumbo would have been a conservative maximum. Yet you were getting leaky primers at 42.0 grains, which to me doesn't add up.

    The same applies to your load of 42.0 of Re 25 producing leaky primers, to me it also doesn't add up, as I would have thought you should have had a maximum of around 49.0 - 50.0 grains with Re 25.

    About 1 week ago I loaded up my 25/06AI, using the 142 grain Wildcat with H870, HRetumbo, VihtN170, and Re25 to test the relationship between the burning rates of my lots of those powders. Hopefully the weather will be better this weekend, and it will be interesting to see the results, especially with VihtN170 and Re25.

    Like GG, I was also interested in how you throated the barrel, for the 100 grain Wildcat.

    I am also interested in the case capacity of your 22/6mmAI, and note that you worked up to 59.0 grains of 8700, and wondered whether that was anywhere near the base of the neck? As a comparison in my .224 Clark it took 60.8 grains H870 to fill to the base of the neck, and about 56.0 grains of H1000.

    I have to admit that I am also surprised that your 1 in 8 twist barrel stabilised the bullet enough to get round holes at 25 yards. Other 22/6mmAI users have reported that their rifles struggled to stabilise the 90 grain JLk with a 1 in 8 twist. Yet the 90 grain JLK is about .070 inches shorter than the 100 grain Wildcat. It certainly will be interesting to see how the 100 grain Wildcats go at 100 - 500 yards with that twist.

    Looking forward to further reports. Brian.
     
  10. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

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    Re: First Velocity test with the Wildcat .224\" 100 gr ULD RBBT.....

    Brain,

    I have a feeling that the reason for the leaky primers with RL-25 and Retumbo is a powder bridging problem with the 40 degree shoulder in the AI case.

    I suspect a ball powder of the same burn rate would easily reach 50 gr capacity with no problems. Again, I do not feel this is a burn rate problem, more a powder bridging issue with the sharp shoulder.

    56.0 gr 8700 was right to the base of the case neck on the 22-6mm AI. Compared to the 224 clark remember the shallower shoulder angle will allow the use of the slower stick powders compared to the 40 degree shoulder.


    As far as stability with the 1-8 twist, its not there. The big 100s were a no show on target at 100 yard. At 50 yards there was some interesting long shaped bullet holes!!!

    To correct my original statement, the original range was more like 15 yards instead of 25.

    Looks like at the 3200 fps level we need a 1-7. Thats fine, Dan makes one of them there barrels!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

    Later,

    Kirby
    APS