Did I have unrealistic expectations?

[mark fox]

my Savage 99's are probably 1.25" rifle with zero load development. I did see one in 250-3000 that shot half inch groups once. Could have had that rifle, and have cried ever since. Just love at first sight!
gary

my moms savage 99 243 shoots with weaver 4 power shoots minuite of deer, kinda my dads remington 760 pump 30-06 all beat up & rusted shoots 3/4 " 5 shot its the only one in the world that will do it. but my pre was 99 savage 22 highpower takedown shoots good also about minute of starling i tested it about 2 days ago on one.

 

[shortgrass]

as far as increasing the amount of powder you can use by seating your bullets out futher it can. thats one of the reasons guys go with longer throats. some cartrage cases can benefit from it greatly like under bore cases. 35 whelen (or how ever you spell it) Others that are overbore might not. Like the 257 weatherby even though Roy did it anyway ( freebore ) but depending on the powder you are using and how long your barrel is adding more powder might not help. One can do the same thing in many cases by just changing the Powder to faster powder in the reloading data. For many years the 35 whelen old farts reloaded it with h4350 & h380 and if you were brave imr 4831 but now we see load data with 223 powder imr 4895 h 335 blc-2 etc. being under bore it cant build preasure so we resorted to faster powder. and doing the ackly imp. to correct the headspacing issue with the 35 whelen and its still a crappy cartrage. but it made it better. ( Thats going to get some posts)

I wouldn't go hunting black bear with your .243, but that 35 Whelen would do for the ranges it's capable of. Not a LR round, but then again the .243 is no LR hunting round, either. It'd not even be a SR round for bear.

 

[shortgrass]

I do, I have a degree in aerodynamics design & engineering and a minor in basic physics. Basic to advanced metallurgy is one of the main courses taken under some engineering degrees. the basic gunsmith finds out real quick what actions and barrels are soft and what ones are hard simply just by working on them. try to drill & tap a ruger m77 or a schultz & larsen you wont evan get past the drilling part much less the taping part before your eyes are opened just how soft savage parts are. ask any barrel manufactor. if you can drill it straight. you can rifle it straight.

Have you put a couple of Savage barrels under a Rockwell tester, or is this just your opinion?

 

[mark fox]

shortgrass the only 243 I have is a pre 64 savage 99 i dont hunt anything with it my mom used it and she never missed. there has been many black bear and 100s if not 1000s of elk killed with the 243 it works just fine shot placement and penetration is much more important than energy and part of what helps with shot placement is a velocity with B.C. I WOULD CHOOSE A 243 OVER A 35 WHELEN ANY DAY bears are not mystical creatures they die just like any thing else I personaly have killed 14 bears all between 250 to 425 lbs 5-of the with 9mm pistols 1-40 cal pistol 1-10mm pistol 2- 30 carbine and the rest long range high powered rifles. None
of the 14 bears did i have to shoot more than one time. I love the 6mm round just dont care for the 243 that much. I did kill a 21 " blacktail at 373 yards with my benchrest 6mm ppc 62 grain berger flat base behind the lt ear droped him like lead. To awnser your question on Savage stainless steel barrels. No i have not (R)tested them. No need to.dont care to.I try not to work on savages at all.Ill sent them to you. but un fortunitly I have worked on my fare share if them. f class stuff. they cut, face, turn, chamber, with way more easy than any other barrel I have ever seen or worked on. with the exception of some of the way early 1880 to 1930 winchesters marlin's stevens etc.

 

[mark fox]

the other reason I hate working on savage rifles is the cheep *&^%$# that buy them and dont want to spend money. my builds go for 4,000.00 to 24,000.00 my time is not cheep. " I don't build cheep rifle way"
Ever see young guns part 2

 

[shortgrass]

Don't send that Savage work to me, I don't want it! I was just courious as whether you were spouting fact or fiction. Just because steel machines easily doesn't mean it's soft, it may just mean it is "machinable". Barrel material needs to neither too hard or too soft. Too hard and tooling suffers. Too soft and they wear quickly, they may not machine well, either. Alloying elements can make the difference in how material machines. Because it machines well doesn't mean it's soft. At what can be short ranges, like 50yds or less, and everything is movin fast, "shot placement" becomes a moot point and a good solid bone breaking hit can mean the difference Not that I'm much of a fan of the Whelen, I just see too many under gun themselves. I see too many .223s and .243s put in hands that don't have the skill to use them on deer sized or larger game. They have them in their hands because of the lower recoil.

 

[Trickymissfit]

Have you put a couple of Savage barrels under a Rockwell tester, or is this just your opinion?

one more time, (this is not for you, but some other folks). Hardness has little to do with machinability. Fine example is a piece of Hestalloy, or better yet 349 stainless steel. The stainless steel will be well under 12 points RC, but go out there and start cutting it. Ampco bronze cuts like butter if you got your stuff right, but one slip up will eat your tooling alive. So what's the difference? Start off with nickel, and just for the fun of it add a little chrome.

By the way a chunk of Hestalloy will reduce a ABEC 7 or 9 grade bearing set to a grade three in about a half hour if things are not well over built
gary

 

[Trickymissfit]

the other reason I hate working on savage rifles is the cheep *&^%$# that buy them and dont want to spend money. my builds go for 4,000.00 to 24,000.00 my time is not cheep. " I don't build cheep rifle way"
Ever see young guns part 2

and I thought a Bill Calfee XP100 conversion (no stock included) was nose bleed expensive!
gary

 

[Ghost7]

WOW! I've been called a lot of things but never cheap. Isn't that profiling?

 

[Dgd6mm]

Ghost, while the high dollar ego's get hammered out here you may want to give me a call and see what we can come up with, from one cheep guy to another cheep guy... pm me and let me know.

Just a Savage Shooter,
Don Dunlap.

 

[Ghost7]

Roger that. I will take you up on that. Gonna shoot my *** savage tomorrow and hopefully will have some positive results to report.
Tightwad

 

[westcliffe01]

I personally have found Sierra match king bullets to be relatively simple to find the "sweet spot" on seating depth. I personally will never have a bullet contact the lands when chambering, there is just too much risk of pulling the bullet out the case when unloading and I usually do not have a cleaning rod in my kit in the field. Worst case scenario you don't notice and chamber another behind it. The next shot will not go well if you manage to pull that off...

The "regular" as opposed to hybrid VLD's can be quite fussy to find the right seating depth. Usually I will find the loaded length that is touching the lands in my chamber and just go a hair shorter than that and then do a powder weight progression test looking for pressure signs. Try to pick the 2 highest accuracy nodes and re-assess the seating depth (increasing the "jump"). Watch again for pressure signs since one is reducing case volume.

Usually 2 or 3 range sessions are all I need to tune a load and I will do 5 cartridges per configuration. In addition, the first 10 or so need to be "foulers" so that you are not testing your reloads on a clean barrel. Now my 6.5x284 has been an exception in that I have not made much progress in at least 4 range sessions. But it is my only CBI barrel and I may not have the bedding quite right either...

 

[gohring3006]

Ghost, while the high dollar ego's get hammered out here you may want to give me a call and see what we can come up with, from one cheep guy to another cheep guy... pm me and let me know.

Just a Savage Shooter,
Don Dunlap.

Roger that. I will take you up on that. Gonna shoot my *** savage tomorrow and hopefully will have some positive results to report.
Tightwad

I can only get my Savage .243 and 22-250 to shoot about a half inch. If only I would have spent $24,000 dollars on a Remington clone, I might have got a 1/4 in. gun. My wallet is too soft like my Savage.

 

[wbm]

Ghost7 Sent you a PM.