Custom rifle

[Joefrazell]

Alright, everyone talks about how there custom rifle shoots .xxx groups all day long. I'm a realist and I've got a few custom rifles and I'd like some input from the guys on the forum that have more experience then I do. To add, we are talking hunting rifles under 12 lbs
Three questions

1) what's the average 5 shot group of your custom hunting rifle
2) what are the worst 5 shot groups you see (with your tunes load)

I'm just kinda at a point that I realize that all bullets will not be touching all the time regardless of any guarantee you see or what others have said. Im seeing that a realistic expectation is 5 shots around 1/2 moa. Some won't make it and some will be better.

On a side note I've found out that gunwerks guarantees a 7 shot group of .7" at 100 yards. I think that says a lot about what to expect from a lightweight premium hunting rifle and is probably a lot more in line with what most of these lightweight hunting rifles will do in normal conditions.

I'm starting to think the quarter minute hunting rifle is a unicorn. Not saying that they can't cut it from time to time. Ive shot several groups that were in the 1's and 2's but none of those guns I would consider quarter min rifles.

I'm the kind of guy that will chase my tail trying to get my rifle to consistently shoot sub half min and will never settle on a load and work on other shooting fundamentals besides groups. Trying to work through this haha.

Last question. At what point do you guys call it good and start shooting and not trying to develop the perfect load?

 

[WildRose]

Alright, everyone talks about how there custom rifle shoots .xxx groups all day long. I'm a realist and I've got a few custom rifles and I'd like some input from the guys on the forum that have more experience then I do. To add, we are talking hunting rifles under 12 lbs
Three questions

1) what's the average 5 shot group of your custom hunting rifle
2) what are the worst 5 shot groups you see (with your tunes load)

I'm just kinda at a point that I realize that all bullets will not be touching all the time regardless of any guarantee you see or what others have said. Im seeing that a realistic expectation is 5 shots around 1/2 moa. Some won't make it and some will be better.

On a side note I've found out that gunwerks guarantees a 7 shot group of .7" at 100 yards. I think that says a lot about what to expect from a lightweight premium hunting rifle and is probably a lot more in line with what most of these lightweight hunting rifles will do in normal conditions.

I'm starting to think the quarter minute hunting rifle is a unicorn. Not saying that they can't cut it from time to time. Ive shot several groups that were in the 1's and 2's but none of those guns I would consider quarter min rifles.

I'm the kind of guy that will chase my tail trying to get my rifle to consistently shoot sub half min and will never settle on a load and work on other shooting fundamentals besides groups. Trying to work through this haha.

Last question. At what point do you guys call it good and start shooting and not trying to develop the perfect load?

I don't shoot 5 shot groups and honestly see no point in it.

When was the last time you had five quick, consecutive shots on a game animal in the field?

If I were shooting in competition it would make sense because most competitions require long shot strings at least at some point during the event.

My goal is to get 1/2 MOA groups with 3 quick shots emulating field conditions.

All of my custom rifles will do that or better if I do my part once I have a good load worked up.

I also find watching others shoot, particularly those shooting magnums of any sort is that after the 3rd shot most guys are flinching so they are just frustrating themselves and will never get a tight group or really know what their rifle/load combo is capable of.

When I head to the range likely as not I'm going to shoot 3, 5, or even more rifles and I don't care how tough a guy thinks he is 99.9% of shooters will start developing, "shooter fatigue", start flinching, and or just get sloppy in their shooting so for all those reasons I think "Less is More". You'll generally get more RELIABLE data I think from the 3 shot groups vs 5 or more shots.

 

[Huntnful]

1/2 MOA with 5 shots is pretty **** good from a 10 pound rifle. 3/4 MOA at 6-800 is a very realistic expectation in my experience. I agree, groups that are often posted and talked about are only a select few of what has actually been shot. I'm guilty of it too haha. But .5-.6 MOA at 100 yards is realistic and I won't shoot the load if it groups bigger than that. Again, 10lb rifle, not a 7lb rifle.

 

[340Wby-4-everything]

I have a High Tech Custom Shadow .340WBY at 7.25lbs rifle and scope (w/no ammo, no sling, no bipod). She regularly will shoot .3" 100yd groups + or - a little with me shooting her with factory Wby ammo. Even shot a .42" group of 3 at 200yds once. A friend (gunsmith that built her) that is a real shooter, unlike myself who I consider a good, but not great shooter, shot a .2 group with her at 200yds - only 3 times he ever shot her. I also have her lil sis in a 300 Wby w/Sako action so a lb or so heavier, but shoots about the same, and again with factory WBY ammo (both have Lilja custom barrels). My cousin has her twin sister that is about 2-4oz lighter and he loads - a lot. His shoots .2"+/- .05 100yd groups regularly. I agree on the hunting rifle point from WildRose - 3 shots is far more realistic for hunting and even then, I personally feel if you can't kill it pretty consistently and cleanly with the proper bullet/cal in 2 and certainly three shots then either you don't shoot well at live targets or your bullet/cal selection needs work. Just one man's opinion.
FYI, Weatherby's factory just set a new in house record with one of their Backcountry Titanium Carbon rifles (6.2lbs) for a 3 shot 100yd group - .06" I read it was with a 300wby, but that was not from Weatherby, so can't confirm. They'd probably tell us. That's pretty impressive.

 

[MOOSE39465]

The way factory rifles are performing these day's I would expect better then 1/2 moa from a custom rifle.

 

[WildRose]

The way factory rifles are performing these day's I would expect better then 1/2 moa from a custom rifle.

The problem is that there's only a handful of 1/2 MOA capable shooters no matter what the rifle is actually capable of.

 

[cjuve]

Groups at 100 do little to tell me anything, many times you don't see things really fall apart until 500 or 600 yards. All of the rifles I hunt with shot 1/4"-1/2" groups before I went to validation.

To me first round impacts mean more than tiny groups. I set steel from 300-945 yds and ideally I want to be able to hit within 1/2 moa of POA on the first round on a calm day.

If you think about it the 10 ring on an f class target is an MOA with the x being 1/2 moa and it is a pretty good accomplishment to clean a target with a 22lb rifle.

 

[cjuve]

The problem is that there's only a handful of 1/2 MOA capable shooters no matter what the rifle is actually capable of.

The rifle and shooter are only a part of the equation especially the further out you get.

 

[MOOSE39465]

The problem is that there's only a handful of 1/2 MOA capable shooters no matter what the rifle is actually capable of

The problem is that there's only a handful of 1/2 MOA capable shooters no matter what the rifle is actually capable of.

I agree.

 

[WildRose]

The rifle and shooter are only a part of the equation especially the further out you get.

I'm well aware of that. It doesn't matter however what the rifle and load are capable of if the shooter isn't capable of 1/2 moa him/herself.

 

[cjuve]

I'm well aware of that. It doesn't matter however what the rifle and load are capable of if the shooter isn't capable of 1/2 moa him/herself.

Sure it does you can't have one without the other. The best shooter can't hold 1/2 moa with out ammo or a gun that can do it.

 

[WildRose]

Sure it does you can't have one without the other. The best shooter can't hold 1/2 moa with out ammo or a gun that can do it.

There's a lot more 1/2MOA capable rifles than there are shooters, that's the problem.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

I shoot 3 shot groups for hunting rifles. I usually do all my tuning at 1kyds. Sometimes if the rifle is a smaller caliber that I wont use past midrange I will tune it at 600yds. At 1k I will stop when I see consistent 1/3 moa. Yes you will shoot some 1s and 2s as well as some 4s and 5s. At 600 I want to see it under 2". You have to accept some variation from day to day due to the tune changing from weather and the fact that magnum recoil in a lighter rifle is just never going to shoot as consistently as a heavy rifle. But over time you should see an average. A true 1/4 moa hunting rifle is in fact rare. Many of the cartridges that we use wont .agg 1/4 moa in a purpose built BR rifle. Theres a reason certain cartridges are used in competition and others are not. If your hunting rifle would agg 1/4 moa at 1000 yards, you would break the current 1000yd BR records. Now, will a good hunting rifle shoot a 1/4 moa group every once in a while? Yes. And for many people and advertisers, that makes it a 1/4 moa rifle. It is a little misleading. A 1/4 moa rifle will shoot 5 groups in a row that average 1/4 moa. Ask for that target with your new hunting rifle and see what happens.

 

[lancetkenyon]

I rarely shoot 5 shots in a row with rifles that shoot a cartridge capacity over 45ish grains.
But, I do test 5 round groups at the completion of load development. If they don't shoot in the .2-.3s, I keep tweaking.
After that, I don't shoot 5 shots again. 3 is plenty for verification after load development is complete.