Comparing the Berger 210 VLD to the 215 Hybrid

[elkaholic]

Ok, I took the time this evening to cut apart a 215 Hybrid Target and a 210 VLD hunting bullet in order to compare jacket thickness. I was surprised at how very close the averaged thicknesses were between the two bullets. Of course I discovered the same thing a year ago when I compared the 210 VLD hunting and a 230 Hybrid Target in the same manner. I measured from the base of each jacket up to the ogive in six different places. I measured twice in order to get an average on each measurement for each jacket.

210 VLD Hunting average thickness between all measurements: .0218"

215 Hybrid Target average thickness between all measurements: .024"

That leaves a difference of .0022" between the two.

I did notice that both bullets start out at the base with a .027" thickness. The 210 VLD quickly drops to .023" thick just .125" above the base. It gradually tapers off to .019" into the top part of the ogive.
The 215 also starts at .027" but gradually tapers from the base to the ogive and measures .0205" near the top of the ogive.
Not sure this is usefull to anyone else but it tells me that that jackets are so darned similar I just don't see a performance difference between the two bullets based off of jackets alone. You will notice that the lead core in the 215 does not extend far into the ogive of the bullet like the 210 does. I suppose this could create some differences in performance? Good or Bad? I guess we'll find out very soon
View attachment 13001
From top to bottom: 215 jacket, 210 jacket, 210 lead core, 215 lead core

Good job! I'm thinking the tips may have blown off without expanding, as my test pics show, because there is nothing to support them (lead). For whatever reason, they acted differently.......Rich

 

[Broz]

First let me apologize for taking so long to test these bullets. It has just been a little crazy this summer helping others with load work ups and tuning rifles. But the reports will now come in.

All I can say is Holy Crap!!! I hear all this doo doo about Bergers taking many rounds to tune.. Well.. that is only true if you consider 6 alot of rounds.

I loaded 3 rounds with H-1000 seated -.040" off the lans. I backed off 4 gr from my 210 VLD load and loaded 3 stepping up 1 gr each shot. These 3 shots, from a clean, unfired cold bore, and with 1 gr difference in charges, shot a group size of .402" c/c. I seen that the top charge was close to or maybe right at max pressure, but bolt lift was smooth, so I loaded 3 more at that charge -.040" off the lans, and made a slight zero adjustment. Shot those 3 off a harris bipod and a rear bag prone. Group size was .190" c/c ES at this time was 7.... I was done! But I wanted to correct the zero 1 click so I loaded 3 more. Huge pilot error on the first shot with a poor break of the trigger. Then shot the two left. These 3 even with the nut behind the bolt pulling one, shot a 3 shot group of .682" the two good break's went into a figure 8 hole of .216 c/c. 6 shot ES was now 9.

Now here is what excites me. Average veocity for those 6 with ES of 9 was 3035 fps across my Oehler 35.

Baro=25.64
Temp=58*
Hum=10%

Run some drift, energy and retained velocity numbers on this old 300 win with a 215 at 3035fps and a BC of G1 .696 and G7 .356. That will make some 7mm boys cry...

I will post some pics tonight. of the target.

I will take this info and get it loaded into Bryans AB program and tomorrow I will be confirming drops to 1200 yards.

Then I have some Wy. and MT. test media tags known as Pallamino Speed Goats. I plan to take some goats both near and far to see how these bullets perform on real meat and bone. If all looks good we will take a some Elk with them later.

Rifle Specs:
McMillan Laz Thumbhole stock pillar bedded.
Defiance Rebel Action
Broughton 5C Sendero contour 1 in 10 twist 28" long fluted by Broughton and a JP brake
Jewell Trigger @ 1lb
Near 30 moa light weight base and NF ULW rings
Nightforce NXS 5.5~22X56 NP-R2
Harris 9~13" swivel bipod with a pod lock
weight of above package 11.6 lbs

Jeff

 

[trebark]

Thanks for the update. Looking forward to results and pics from 'test media' shooting.

 

[Broz]

Thanks for the update. Looking forward to results and pics from 'test media' shooting.

You got it. I try to always post terminal performance pics. They are for my records and I have no problem sharing them so you can draw your own conclusions.

Jeff

 

[shooterpunk2]

I'm really looking forward to your findings too. I want to try them but only if they show promise.

 

[Broz]

Here are the pics of todays shooting and load work up. Again this is a max load, in Lapua brass, in a custom rifle with a custom chamber and throat. Work up from well below this level. Not many rifle would shoot this load safely.

The target:

The Oehler reading

 

[Tumbleweed]

First let me apologize for taking so long to test these bullets. It has just been a little crazy this summer helping others with load work ups and tuning rifles. But the reports will now come in.

All I can say is Holy Crap!!! I hear all this doo doo about Bergers taking many rounds to tune.. Well.. that is only true if you consider 6 alot of rounds.

I loaded 3 rounds with H-1000 seated -.040" off the lans. I backed off 4 gr from my 210 VLD load and loaded 3 stepping up 1 gr each shot. These 3 shots, from a clean, unfired cold bore, and with 1 gr difference in charges, shot a group size of .402" c/c. I seen that the top charge was close to or maybe right at max pressure, but bolt lift was smooth, so I loaded 3 more at that charge -.040" off the lans, and made a slight zero adjustment. Shot those 3 off a harris bipod and a rear bag prone. Group size was .190" c/c ES at this time was 7.... I was done! But I wanted to correct the zero 1 click so I loaded 3 more. Huge pilot error on the first shot with a poor break of the trigger. Then shot the two left. These 3 even with the nut behind the bolt pulling one, shot a 3 shot group of .682" the two good break's went into a figure 8 hole of .216 c/c. 6 shot ES was now 9.

Now here is what excites me. Average veocity for those 6 with ES of 9 was 3035 fps across my Oehler 35.

Baro=25.64
Temp=58*
Hum=10%

Run some drift, energy and retained velocity numbers on this old 300 win with a 215 at 3035fps and a BC of G1 .696 and G7 .356. That will make some 7mm boys cry...

I will post some pics tonight. of the target.

I will take this info and get it loaded into Bryans AB program and tomorrow I will be confirming drops to 1200 yards.

Then I have some Wy. and MT. test media tags known as Pallamino Speed Goats. I plan to take some goats both near and far to see how these bullets perform on real meat and bone. If all looks good we will take a some Elk with them later.

Rifle Specs:
McMillan Laz Thumbhole stock pillar bedded.
Defiance Rebel Action
Broughton 5C Sendero contour 1 in 10 twist 28" long fluted by Broughton and a JP brake
Jewell Trigger @ 1lb
Near 30 moa light weight base and NF ULW rings
Nightforce NXS 5.5~22X56 NP-R2
Harris 9~13" swivel bipod with a pod lock
weight of above package 11.6 lbs

Jeff

Wow! That's great Jeff! I knew you would love these! I was pretty sure you would get over 3K with these also with their short bearing surface. I was able to do the same when moving from a 210 to the 215. Looking forward to hearing and seeing your on game results!

 

[Broz]

Wow! That's great Jeff! I knew you would love these! I was pretty sure you would get over 3K with these also with their short bearing surface. I was able to do the same when moving from a 210 to the 215. Looking forward to hearing and seeing your on game results!

Well I love them so far. But I need them to do their job on game. The jury is still out on that one. But I will know soon. Tomorrow I hope to shoot some groups at distance to see how this load holds up.

Jeff

 

[bigngreen]

Jeez, now I feel bad it takes me a whole dozen or so rounds to find a load guess I had one of the fickle lots, although that rifle really does play nice it seems. That bullet seems to really fit the 300 mag between the BC, weight and velocity it really hits some numbers, all it needs to do is blow the life out of a few goats and it's GTG.

 

[barnesuser28]

I would try to get a couple kills where the impact velocity is <2200 fps.

 

[Tumbleweed]

Well I love them so far. But I need them to do their job on game. The jury is still out on that one. But I will know soon. Tomorrow I hope to shoot some groups at distance to see how this load holds up.

Jeff

Great! How soon will you be hunting speed goats?

 

[Broz]

Great! How soon will you be hunting speed goats?

About a week.

Jeff

 

[Broz]

BnG, we will soon see won't we.gun)


Riley, They will hit 2200 at about 750 yards,where I live, and about 2000 fps at 1000 yards. You never know when these shots will be available in good conditions. But unless I see something I don't like and go back to the 210 they will eventally get tested to 1000 and a little beyond.

Jeff

 

[Broz]

Update: I just got back from the field testing for accuracy and drops on these bullets. I am blown away!! These 215's have given my already good shooting 300 win a real boost. I took them straight to my 1000 yard steel. Ranged it at 1007 yards , punched the field conditons into Bryan's Applied Ballistics program, dialed it in, set paralax and sent 3. All 3 solidly hit the plate. When I got there here is what I found.

Just inder .4" or .4 MOA at 1007 yards. As you can see the orange dot was faded away, so I was holding center mass. A smaller more precise point of aim would most likely yield even better.

So I called that good, but needed to make sure my come ups were on at more distances. I went to a place I shoot rocks and found a flat face cliff at 725 yards with a small out cropped rock about the size of a grape fruit. I dialed in and sent one. I watched as the bullet hit dead center and blew the out cropping off the face. OK, what about closer, at 482 yards on a rock was a small tennis ball sized patch of moss. I sent one and it disinigrated.

So by now I am feeling pretty cocky. How far is that rock way over there? 1464 yards and it is just over 1 moa. What the heck! I turned on the coriolis correction, got azmuth, latitude, and shoot angle. Dialed in 37.75 moa up and 2.4 moa left for wind, CD and SD. Then I reset the paralax and got straight behind the rifle. Once I was confortable, and rock solid, I sent the Berger on its way. 2 seconds later it arrived with an impact velocity of 1578 fps and 1190 lbs of energy. I got a big smile when the dust ball came off the rock from dead center from the first and only round fired.

So, My Oehler is definatly saving me time and money with accurate velocities. Berger has nailed the BC and Bran Litz's Applied Ballistics program has me tuned in for cold bore hits both near and far.

I am set. All that is left is testing their terminal performance. But my confinence to place them well is good.

Jeff