caliber conundrum 7mm. v. 30cal.

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by vendetta333, Jul 13, 2011.

  1. vendetta333

    vendetta333 Well-Known Member

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    im looking to build an elk gun, for humane (obviously) shots out to like 700yds. weight of the gun, and finding ammo are not a big deal, but im torn between the 7mm. Rem. Mag. or the 300 winmag? thoughts? im just worried about retained energy.
     
  2. Boss Hoss

    Boss Hoss Well-Known Member

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    Edited
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2011

  3. fj40mojo

    fj40mojo Well-Known Member

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    I prefer the superior BC of the 7mm for long range.
     
  4. pyroducksx3

    pyroducksx3 Well-Known Member

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    After overthinking everything and then figuring out I didn't know as much as thought I have come to these conclusion. In 130-140 gr bullets stick to 6.5 and 277 cal., 150-180 are best for 7mm, 180-210 gr for 308 and everything from there (210+) 338. The other thing I have learned is for elk out to 600 +/- a 130-168 bullet "will work", for elk out to 800 +/- the 180-210 "will work" and anything farther the 225-300 gr should be the choice with the bigger 338 (edge, lap, ultramag) elk out to 1300. So buy using this logic you want elk out to 700 yards you want "at least" a 180-210 gr bullet which means a 30 cal bullet and obviously a 338 being more capable. These are just my conclusions that I have come to after spending way too much time thinking about caliber choices and these guidelines are really helping me make the decisions easier. So a 7 "will work" but you are pushing the boundries with it.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2011
  5. vendetta333

    vendetta333 Well-Known Member

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    thats what i was thinking. because iwas thinking about match bullets at first (not to hunt with just in concept) and the most popular match bullet ever id say the 168 smk 30cal, with the same weight and construction in one cal lower will yield a higher bc. so i was thinking that as long as i have a good cartridge like the 7mag, i figd the 7 would be the better choice.

    some body correct me if im off. also, i would like counter arguments just for good consideration. thanx to all :cool:
     
  6. vendetta333

    vendetta333 Well-Known Member

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    ok, well, that all taken in to consideration, what would anyone suggest as their ideal cartridge that is preferably sub 30 cal, and if a 30, not the 300 winmag, or wsm equiv. thats really the root of what im looking for. the 7mag seemed a good choice with the correct hand loads. i was thinking of the sierra 175 game king. bc of 538 ish. these will represent probably the greatest hunting demands i will put on any cartridge.

    all suggestions eagerly welcomed!
     
  7. pyroducksx3

    pyroducksx3 Well-Known Member

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    I have a 7 mag and it's not like I'm not happy with it but it just sort of falls in the middle of what I want to do with it. I also have a 300 wsm in the tikka T3 lite. The tikka with 168 + gr bullets has some recoil to it. So I picked up the 7 in a rem 700 and an hs stock thinking it's better because I can use lighter bullets to get better results but once you go to the 150 and lighter bullets you aren't doing that much better than the 270 win. And at 168-180 gr bullets the recoil isn't any different than a 300 wsm/win mag. So I have decided to rechamber my rem 700 rem mag to a 338 edge for long range shooting and loads the tikka with 150 gr bullets until I rebarrel and then get that in a 6.5 or 270wsm (maybe a 6.5 stw) and will be a nice light gun that's not bad to shoot and capable out 600 or so and everything else gets the 338 whether it needs it or not.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2011
  8. vendetta333

    vendetta333 Well-Known Member

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    appreciate the feedback. im not really puting recoil into this equation, but to tackle it any way, i do not see the need in taking on any unnecessary recoil. like that one gets from the 300 win, with no real upgrade in knock down that i can see. please correct me if im wrong. as such im looking at a 260rem. AR-10 for everything smaller than elk and within 1000 yds. that isthe ultimate caliber in my book. but as is plainly seen, i need just a little more bump for elk inside 800 yds. i plan to use the 160gr hornady rn for elk inside 200yds. kind of like a way better 30-30! lol :D

    but yea guys please throw out whatever suggestions you all have! if absolutely nothing else comes of mind, then by all means suggest whatever but plz first try and help me with my parameters.
     
  9. pyroducksx3

    pyroducksx3 Well-Known Member

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    In sub .30 and for best recoil vs energy not 100% sure on the order but it's pretty close 6.5 STW, 270 wsm, (6.5 wsm, or 264 win mag) these using 130-140 gr bullets. Using 168-180 gr bullets in order 7 STW, 7 dakota and 7 RUM. In .30 cal in order 300 RUM, 300 weatherby
     
  10. vendetta333

    vendetta333 Well-Known Member

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    yea, i'm aware of those rounds and they're all great rounds, but would they be enough for an elk out that far?
     
  11. pyroducksx3

    pyroducksx3 Well-Known Member

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    Well to be honest I don't think the 7 rem mag is a good choice for elk out to 700, maybe with 180 gr bullet but then at that point I'd rather have a 200 gr AB or something similar out of a 300 win mag or more powerful 30 cal. mag. So yes I think realistically those calibers will do what a 7 rem mag will realistically do. And I'm sure I'm going to get huge arguments about how wrong I am because there are a lot of people that have killed or believe that the 7 mag is great out to a 1000 yards on elk. I have seen all videos also of people killing elk that far out. However just because it can or has worked doesn't mean it the best choice. I mean I have heard of people killing black bear with a 22 but that doesn't mean it's my new bear gun
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2011
  12. Long Time Long Ranger

    Long Time Long Ranger Well-Known Member

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    What you have stated is an oxymoron. You said long range elk and then stated your calibers which are not good choices for long range elk. They will work for elk with proper bullets but are best at much closer distances than 700 yards. If you luck up and get the perfect long range angle with the elk perfectly still and you also luck up with the perfect shot they will work long range. They work extremely well if you have a camera and can edit out all the shots you don't want people to see. Unfortunately many elk are lost every year to people not making good choices whether with cartridge or bullets or distance or shooting ability. Basically a bunch of bad decisions all the way around end up with a bunch of wasted elk every year. If you are confident your elk opportunity will be a perfect angle at a content still elk in the open and you can make the perfect shot every time then shoot about any legal cartridge with proper bullets. Otherwise buy an elk rifle.

    If you are building a long range elk rifle then build a long range elk rifle. That would start with a 338 caliber and go up from there. At the ranges the two cartridges you mentioned are best at for elk you can buy a rifle at any gunshop in many cartridges that will suit your purpose without spending a bundle. If you want to shoot long range elk you need a cartridge and a rifle capable so if your building one anyway then get one that will do the job in most elk situations and do not limit yourself after spending that kind of money. I understand this is a long range elk rifle so look at a 338 caliber that will push a 225 grain bullet +3100 fps or a 300 grain bullet over 2700 fps. This will allow you to break an elk down at long range with shots other than something through the neck/spine which are difficult shots long range in a typical elk hunting situation.

    I have seen elk taken with about everything out there but as the range increases large caliber heavy bullets overwhelm the smaller calibers when shooting elk. This comes from quite a lot of experience and just trying to get you to the right place the first time
     
  13. vendetta333

    vendetta333 Well-Known Member

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    thanx to both of you. i agree with people that the 7 mag is great past 1000 yds (on steel) i would not take those shots on any creature like that.

    again staying in the sub 338, would you suggest the 325 wsm? and if not, thanx for the info! i would much rather get good info from the beginning than go out and cripple an elk from 700yds!

    i have an affinity for sub cal stuff, and like to see how far i can stretch their potential. but the best ive done is the 8 pointer i took with my 7mm-08 at 646. well thanx guys, im off to do some more research on the big guys!
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2011
  14. pyroducksx3

    pyroducksx3 Well-Known Member

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    I haven't really looked at the 325 much so I can say, is there much in the way good longrange bullets in that caliber? I imagine the bullets available is going to be the limiting factor here. There are some exceptions if you really want to stay below 338 but it's wildcat cartridges and custom bullets such as a 7mm Allen Mag using 200 gr wildcat bullets but even then it's more work than a factory 338 RUM and still isn't a better choice just a much better choice than a 7 rem mag
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2011