J E Custom
Well-Known Member
I will see if I can put a video together using the 460 as soon as I get the fore end bedded.
J E CUSTOM
Barrel break in
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I will see if I can put a video together using the 460 as soon as I get the fore end bedded.
J E CUSTOM
birdiemc
Well-Known Member
This thread got me convinced to try out the break in procedure.I have a 22-250 that's had a box of factory ammo through it, a 308 that's had several hundred rounds through it, and a 6.5cm that had 4 shots before I started with my break in.
Lots of questions so please bear with me. These cleaning questions are specifically for the break in time, not daily cleaning...
1. JE says shoot then clean while monitoring velocity. But how clean are we talking about here? Run a borescope in it and see absolutely no copper at all? Or just until a patch comes out with no blue?
2. How to clean? My cleaning education was from the Marine Corps, what I learned there is highly frowned upon by members of this forum.
3. Carbon: Should I run a solvent soaked patch through, then follow with dry, alternating till the dry one comes out snow white? Or are we looking for a solvent soaked that comes out clean, then dry patch to dry the bore? I notice my solvent soaked patches typically are clean long before the dry ones but that doesn't make sense in my head.
4. Copper: basically the same as carbon question. But it seems cleaning carbon then copper allows for better blue on the patch so does the order matter?
5. Just use patches? Or break out a brush? I currently only have the hoppes ones that are bronze.
Lots of questions so please bear with me. These cleaning questions are specifically for the break in time, not daily cleaning...
1. JE says shoot then clean while monitoring velocity. But how clean are we talking about here? Run a borescope in it and see absolutely no copper at all? Or just until a patch comes out with no blue?
2. How to clean? My cleaning education was from the Marine Corps, what I learned there is highly frowned upon by members of this forum.
3. Carbon: Should I run a solvent soaked patch through, then follow with dry, alternating till the dry one comes out snow white? Or are we looking for a solvent soaked that comes out clean, then dry patch to dry the bore? I notice my solvent soaked patches typically are clean long before the dry ones but that doesn't make sense in my head.
4. Copper: basically the same as carbon question. But it seems cleaning carbon then copper allows for better blue on the patch so does the order matter?
5. Just use patches? Or break out a brush? I currently only have the hoppes ones that are bronze.
MOOSE39465
Well-Known Member
What's barrel brake in? Ain't nobody got time for that.
When are you building another hunting rifle capable of 1s and zeros? Wouldn't that show breakin better than a 460? Unless the 460 weighs 70lbsI will see if I can put a video together using the 460 as soon as I get the fore end bedded.
J E CUSTOM
Jluck
Well-Known Member
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- Jan 25, 2014
- Messages
- 434
Yep, we do. Gotta prioritize..
MOOSE39465
Well-Known Member
I tried it multiple times but never seen any advantages.
birdiemc
Well-Known Member
J E Customs states that he has tested and proved that there is a benefit...can't say that I've ever proved him wrong on anything before so I figure it's worth checking out for myself. I'll start another thread and document it as I go. Forgot a second 308 in my last post, my dad and I bought the same ones a while back, I've shot a lot, he had shoulder surgery and never even fired his. So I'll throw that one into the mix as well 4 total. 3 are factory barrels and 1 is a shilen. I just got a teslong borescope so I can provide pictures and detail my cleaning process as well as put up velocities. Might be interesting for folks to see.
MOOSE39465
Well-Known Member
I'm more worried about cold bore shots. Each rifle is different so knowing your rifle is the key. Not taking anything away from JE Custom because he probably knows a million times more then I do. All I can do is go by personal experience.
My views on break in and cleaning. Like others have mentioned, I shoot one and clean until there is significantly less blue. For example, I just began working with a hart barreled 264 win mag. I used boretech eliminator with shrink tubing over the brass portion of my dewey rod to ensure I didn't get any false readings. I use a patch jag combo only. Shot 1, cleaned. It took between 40 to 50 patches before the patches coming out the end of the muzzle were no longer blue. Shot 2, similar number of patches. Shot 3, 30 to 40 patches. Shot 4, light blue after 3 patches and no blue by 6 patches. To me, this paints the picture of tooling marks left by reamer catching copper on shot 1,2 and 3. After shot 4, I believe the tooling marks have been removed. Now, I did study this with a borescope between shots and what I saw matched the results I saw in the patches. After the last cleaning its my MO to shoot a couple of fouler rounds, then take the 5 or 6 now once fired and fire formed brass and run a quick pressure test to determine max pressure. I do this with a magneto strapped on and record the velocity and notes regarding what I am seeing on the brass. Once this is determined, I clean one last time, and as long as it cleans quickly, break in is done. So far on good quality barrels it has played out well each time. Once this is done I do not clean again until accuracy declines or the rifle gets wet/dirty in the field. Every round I shoot is logged and I can go 250+ rounds between shooting on my custom builds ( good quality aftermarket barrels). For reference, some of my factory barrels need to be cleaned in as little as 25 rounds. For another reference, a rem 700 gen 2 5r in a 260 recently went approx 150, then showed signs it needed cleaned. The first few shots that day were spot on, then all of the sudden it was all over the place. We cleaned it, went back out again and right away it was spot on again. Shawn Carlock taught this method and it has worked great for me as well. He has had rental guns fired over 1000 rounds without being cleaned and still shot incredibly well. Edit to add that I am not sure how Shawn feels about breaking in a barrel. When I mentioned that Shawn taught the method I was only referring to not cleaning until necessary.
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birdiemc
Well-Known Member
I appreciate the response lamiglas. Would you mind breaking down how you clean? As if you were explaining it to somebody who never seen a jag before. How many wet patches do you push? how long between?
1. JE says shoot then clean while monitoring velocity. But how clean are we talking about here? Run a borescope in it and see absolutely no copper at all? Or just until a patch comes out with no blue?
2. How to clean? My cleaning education was from the Marine Corps, what I learned there is highly frowned upon by members of this forum.
3. Carbon: Should I run a solvent soaked patch through, then follow with dry, alternating till the dry one comes out snow white? Or are we looking for a solvent soaked that comes out clean, then dry patch to dry the bore? I notice my solvent soaked patches typically are clean long before the dry ones but that doesn't make sense in my head.
4. Copper: basically the same as carbon question. But it seems cleaning carbon then copper allows for better blue on the patch so does the order matter?
5. Just use patches? Or break out a brush? I currently only have the hoppes ones that are bronze.
1. JE says shoot then clean while monitoring velocity. But how clean are we talking about here? Run a borescope in it and see absolutely no copper at all? Or just until a patch comes out with no blue?
2. How to clean? My cleaning education was from the Marine Corps, what I learned there is highly frowned upon by members of this forum.
3. Carbon: Should I run a solvent soaked patch through, then follow with dry, alternating till the dry one comes out snow white? Or are we looking for a solvent soaked that comes out clean, then dry patch to dry the bore? I notice my solvent soaked patches typically are clean long before the dry ones but that doesn't make sense in my head.
4. Copper: basically the same as carbon question. But it seems cleaning carbon then copper allows for better blue on the patch so does the order matter?
5. Just use patches? Or break out a brush? I currently only have the hoppes ones that are bronze.
J E Custom
Well-Known Member
Most Hunters feel this way and the cold bore shot is the most important one.
What Barrel break in does is to make the bore more uniform/consistent end to end and we all know what consistency does for us. Knowing what condition your barrel will perform at it's best is paramount for consistent/repeatable cold bore shots. If it shoots its best fouled, that's the way you should hunt with it. My only problem with this for cold bore shots is that fouling is constantly changing and there fore not as predictable as a clean bore every time .
There is a heck of a lot I still have to learn, but hearsay and perceived hasn't helped, Only testing and record keeping have proven anything as far as I am concerned. Opinions are just that Opinions and proof comes from experience and testing so the ones that believe brake in is not necessary and doesn't show any positive results, I'm Glad for them and there beliefs. But when Brake in improves velocity by near 100 ft/sec during brake in , it must be doing something good to allow the bullet to speed up that much.
It may be that the barrel will eventually speed up/ increase in velocity buy that much, but in the meantime you are dealing with that Increase continually. So for the cold bore shooter, Brake in is what "I" recommend.
J E CUSTOM
We can all differ on our techniques based on REAL data that we have acquired. It is important we are honest about assumptions of those on the other side.
I'm curious, are you saying the 100fps speed up will not happen unless you do a breakin?
J E Custom
Well-Known Member
No
I said that It happened during brake in. It could happen over time as the barrel is shot, but that Is unpredictable and cant be depended on because as it wears it also changes.
I just prefer to start load development with a consistent barrel because it saves time and components.
J E CUSTOM
Isnt the number of rounds needed to breakin a barrel unpredictable? You can chrono both ways.
One thing I really like about a shoot once, clean for the first few rounds is the ability to keep up with carbon and copper. The first cleaning after 20 shots take some work if no cleaning is done between shots.
