Aluminum Tipped Bullets from Goergia by Greyghostt

[Wild_Bill]

Hi i need some

Hi i would like to get 100 of the 265 and 280gr 338's and 100 of the 180 and 222gr 30 cals for our match rifle shooters.

I would like the 338's for my 338WBX it is a 300ultra necked to 338 improved with a 60 degree shoulder it is almost finished i am finishing inleting it today.

the 30 cals are for Match Rifle customers. The Match Rifle competition shot here in Australia and other commonwelth countries is limited to a 308 Win cartrige and the barrel must not exceed 2.5KG in weight to limit massive barrels so we are getting 9.5 twist cut rifled Lawtom barrels 34" long and fluted they just make the weight. These projectiles should be the best thing available as the competition is shot at 1000, 1100, and 1200 yards and they are 20 shot matches the Bull ring is around 10" at all ranges. The rifles have a scope and are shot in a sling with a rest under the front hand onl so it is interesting watching someone shoot a Bull then mis the target the next shot. the 180's and 222's should be a realy good projectile with the 180's probably being the best for the 308 case so if possible could you organise some so i can get the 308 shooters to try them as we fit a lot of their barrels at my friends Buisness grenfell Armouring Service in Australia geoff would like to become the Australian Agent and hopefully we can get some large orders for them but we would have to give some to a top match Rifle shooter to test.

Cheers Bill

Bill Siegloff
2 Noble Court
Golden Square
Victoria
Australia 3555

 

[rocky_lange]

--180 grain at about 2500 fps (45 grains of Varget) out of a standard 308 Wichita Silhouette pistol with a 10" twist, Nightforce 8-32 x56 scope, and Holland muzzle break........ All bullets stabilized into a group that could not be plugged by a .338 bullet. The actual group measured .0155". Absolutely the best group I ever shot with a pistol and the only group I shot with it today....... Who knows, I may quit shooting groups with this pistol...... These bullets shoot well in my specialty pistol down here at my altitude. However, your resulsts may vary based on your locale and weapon.

--212 grain at an arbritrary powder charge (78gr H1000) and seating depth (-.050" off the lands) yielded a tad under.375". Not bad for no load work up and a factory 300 Win Mag Sendero Special. I would consider these stable as well.

James

So what twist was the rifle the 212s were tested in? Can the 220s be stabilized in a 10" twist?


And can you post a link to a website where I might be able to buy some of these?

Rocky

 

[Lightvarmint]

Rocky,

The 212 stabilized in the 10" factory Sendero Special 300 Win Mag. No website for now...... His nick name here is Greyghostt and his emial is under his profile. Remember two t's in bullet when you send him an email.

James

 

[overbore]

Light Varmint

I have been up to my antlers in getting new PD equipped and missed your SG question. This is a designator of the relative Stability Value or Factor of a given bullet ( length ) at a specific MV with a specific twist. A bullet with a stability factor of 2.0 is considered by the military to be fully stabilized. A Factor below 1.35 is considered stabilized, bottom end, but higher atmospheric densities may require more twist to stay within the 1.35 SG. In Bench shooting some of the greatest accuracy groups are shot a lower SG numbers, slower twist barrels. These AL tip bullets eliminate the uneven BC's from vertical stringing by having uniform meplats; a very good thing as bullet lengths are now all uniform so vertical uniformity is enhanced. In Nam, the 5.56 bullet was not "fully stabilized" meaning that upon impact in Charley, it would tumb-- le. Deliberate emphasis on what happened to to soft tissues. No expansion but tumbled well. Now the REMF's ( if you don't know what that means you did not serve ) have a stable bullet that will penetrate a helmet at 500Meters but will not give a one stop hit at close range--. It is all in the twist-- Best wishes, Overbore

 

[Lightvarmint]

I have been up to my antlers in getting new PD equipped and missed your SG question. This is a designator of the relative Stability Value or Factor of a given bullet ( length ) at a specific MV with a specific twist. A bullet with a stability factor of 2.0 is considered by the military to be fully stabilized. A Factor below 1.35 is considered stabilized, bottom end, but higher atmospheric densities may require more twist to stay within the 1.35 SG. In Bench shooting some of the greatest accuracy groups are shot a lower SG numbers, slower twist barrels. These AL tip bullets eliminate the uneven BC's from vertical stringing by having uniform meplats; a very good thing as bullet lengths are now all uniform so vertical uniformity is enhanced. In Nam, the 5.56 bullet was not "fully stabilized" meaning that upon impact in Charley, it would tumb-- le. Deliberate emphasis on what happened to to soft tissues. No expansion but tumbled well. Now the REMF's ( if you don't know what that means you did not serve ) have a stable bullet that will penetrate a helmet at 500Meters but will not give a one stop hit at close range--. It is all in the twist-- Best wishes, Overbore

Hello,

I shot little torpedoes (some mines) and great big ICBMs from submarines for thirty years............ All of them had minds of their own........ However, none of the small stuff you are referencing.

When I was the submarine force student rep at USASMA (army school) in Ft Bliss during 1997, we had some friendly 600 meter shoots. It was funny because the first few shoots, the SF guys underestimated me and I took their money. When the third shoot was scheduled, a memo was circulated that forbade them to shoot for money anymore against the "Navy"............ We all had a great time during that year.

My faculty advisor (Hank the tank Gallahan) was an SF sniper and after his wife (with my rifle) beat him with his sniper rifle at 600 meters on the first three shots she took with my gun, he packed up his stuff, took off his Rolex and sold it the next day to finance a new action. He is now the proud owner of his own 17-4 pH stainless switch-barrelled rifle. His wife had never shot at anything over 100 yards until she shot the Hall M. I still hear the story third hand from folks who know Hank...... It was hilarious. Too bad candid camera was not there.

But I did serve my "time". Hooooooah!

James

 

[Stormrider]

I just ordered up some 180's. Greyghostt told me that the 180's and the 212's would stabilize in a 1:10 but the 220 needs a 1:8.
I am really wanting to try these out.

 

[Lightvarmint]

I just ordered up some 180's. Greyghostt told me that the 180's and the 212's would stabilize in a 1:10 but the 220 needs a 1:8.
I am really wanting to try these out.

Hello,

What gun, powder scale, ogive tool, scope and mirage shade are you using?

James

 

[Stormrider]

James,

I have 2 308's one is an M40A1 clone from Texas Brigade Armory with a 26" barrel, the other is a parts gun that I made up from spares and a takeoff Rem PSS barrel cut to 20".
A 300 Win Mag from TBA w/26" bbl.
A 300 RUM from TBA w/26" bbl.
And an AR15 in 300 Whisper.

Powder scale is a PACT electronic scale, no ogive tool, Scopes are IOR 3X18X42, 2 Leupold 4.5X14X50 and a US Optics 3.2X17.

No mirage shades.

 

[Lightvarmint]

James,

I have 2 308's one is an M40A1 clone from Texas Brigade Armory with a 26" barrel, the other is a parts gun that I made up from spares and a takeoff Rem PSS barrel cut to 20".
A 300 Win Mag from TBA w/26" bbl.
A 300 RUM from TBA w/26" bbl.
And an AR15 in 300 Whisper.

Powder scale is a PACT electronic scale, no ogive tool, Scopes are IOR 3X18X42, 2 Leupold 4.5X14X50 and a US Optics 3.2X17.

No mirage shades.

Man, you have some nice stuff. You should/will have fun with these laser-like projectiles. They actually are consistent as if they were lathe-turned.


To really get serious and try to shoot bug holes with these projectiles, I recommend the following as these were the basic steps we used to test the bullets:

--We always shot with a mirage shade on the barrel to keep the heat rejected by the barrel from getting into the line of sight of the scope.

--We had Jewell triggers on our guns.

--We always indexed our cases. Specifically, we performed runout tests on each round and marked the high side and indexed them into the chamber with the high side up.

--We always seated our bullets with a micrometer seating die. Coupled with this is the ogive nose and base installed on dial calipers to ensure the ogive is in the exact same distance from the lands.

--We used a powder scale that was of lab quality and is accurate to .02 grains. This really helps when you are attempting to minimize the velocity spread. We weighed each charge to -.00 and + .02 grain for each charge.

--We always used bushing sizing dies to ensure that the neck is concentric and that the expander ball does not touch the neck. This controls neck tension to the highest degree.

--Along with the bushing die is turning the case necks. This ensures the case necks are the same thickness for the entire neck cricumference.

--When we sized the cases we did so in a manner and to an amount such that there was light resistance on the bolt the last 10 degrees of closing. This was checked without the firing pin installed and with a sized round without primers.

--We tuned the primer pockets so that the primer had some resistance on the last one or two degrees of motion on the priming tool.

--We uniformed the flash holes. This is a no brainer to ensure the ignition source and size is uniform from shot to shot.

--We sorted the brass into one grain weight groups and took the culls that were way outside the groups and used it for this published testing. So all this shooting is with brass that has a wide variance in its weight.

--We stuck our hand into the bag of bullets and pulled out what was needed. We did not sort bullets in any fashion.

--We always fouled the barrel with two shots prior to shooting for record.

--After each shot, we stabilized the barrel harmonics by grabbing it to supress any vibration.

--We shot all groups between 0600 and 0830 except for the last shooting session mentioned yesterday. This prevents any ground mirage from interferring with the sight picture.

--We also used Bald Eagle rests and Protektor bags and use a doughnut under the rear bag.

Other than what I mentioned above everything else is fairly standard.

Note: We purposefully left the two accuracy variables on the table due to limited numbers of test bullets and limited amounts of brass. For our long range hunting rounds those two variables will be removed as we will sort the bullets and use the sorted brass in our hunting rounds.

I think that is about it. If you need any clarification or help, let me know.

James

 

[Stormrider]

James,
Thanks, I'm going to work with the parts gun first and see what it can do. Right now I can get 2650 out of it with Berger 185's with no pressure signs. I've been soft seating the bullets using a 3.1" oal and jamming them into the lands.
I am looking forward to trying these bullets out.

 

[davewilson]

LightVarmint, your reloading proceedures are what most use. i have one question. why do you remove the firing pin for setting the sizing die? actually, i'd rather have it in there. without a primer, i can't see it touching anything. can i ask why you remove it? maybe you mean the extractor plunger pin and spring?

 

[Lightvarmint]

LightVarmint, your reloading proceedures are what most use. i have one question. why do you remove the firing pin for setting the sizing die? actually, i'd rather have it in there. without a primer, i can't see it touching anything. can i ask why you remove it? maybe you mean the extractor plunger pin and spring?

Removing the firing pin will increase the sensitivity you have when closing the bolt. If you leave it in there, the band width of resistance is so wide that you cannot perfectly fine tune it to the last ten degrees or so.

Since I have shot in a few matches, I am sensitive to (1) having the bolt in the gun in close proximity to humans. (2) When said bolt is in the gun (unless shooting or hunting) the firing pin is out to prevent any littany of mishaps......

So in short, (1) sensitivity, (2) safety.

I am glad that most are using these reloading procedures. I am glad that everyone has scales that are that accurate (two-one hundreths (not tenths) of a grain or better) and that they turn their brass to
.0001" +/- .0000 and also that they are using the bushing dies for minimum runout on their loaded rounds. It just means that their results should mirror mine if they do their part with both selecting, setting up and shooting their weapons. After all, I left two accuracy robbers (sorted brass and sorted bullets) on the table during the bullet testing.

FWIW, I did some QC work for Nosler earlier this year. They have four or five Denver instrument scales in the Custom shop that are calibrated weekly. They trained their employees in their use and they still get
+ or - more than one grain spread on their custom loaded 338 RUM ammo. Try getting a velocity spread fix with that amount of deviation on a powder measure.

It is just a bunch of "little" things that add up to the larger things in the accuracy game.

James

 

[Stormrider]

...I'm going to work with the parts gun first...

Just realized that I can't do that. The parts gun is a Rem take off bbl so it's got a 1:12 twist...
I'll just have use the M40...

 

[jmden]

1.800

How long are the 212's?

Have they worked in a 10 twist?