810Y one-shot kill Lazz WARBIRD
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MudRunner2005
Well-Known Member
I look forward to your findings! I've always loved the 7.82 Warbird, since I first read about it.
Man I wish I had won that old Sendero SF barrel that had been re-chambered to 7.82 WB, that was up on ebay a few months back. I lost it by $2.50....I was so ****ed! I was this <-> close to finally having my Warbird.
I am going to introduce a new model Lazzeroni L2012-LRPH at the SHOT SHOW in Vegas ,,,,,,,,
Warbird caliber ONLY, Timney trigger, Bell & Carlson stock ,,, will build 10 rifles at a time, all the same for economics of manufacture ,,,,,,, not quite the totally custom/production rifle that I offer for $6,000+ ,,,,,,,
but still a superior rifle in the $4,999.99 range ,,,,,,,,,
what do you think ? ,,,,,,,,
Warbird caliber ONLY, Timney trigger, Bell & Carlson stock ,,, will build 10 rifles at a time, all the same for economics of manufacture ,,,,,,, not quite the totally custom/production rifle that I offer for $6,000+ ,,,,,,,
but still a superior rifle in the $4,999.99 range ,,,,,,,,,
what do you think ? ,,,,,,,,
MudRunner2005
Well-Known Member
Here's my honest opinion, which I know means very little because I'm a nobody...And I promise it isn't meant to be insulting at all. This is just simply my opinion and my thoughts on the matter. And I try to be as honest as I can with folks when they ask my opinion. I was brought up that honesty is always the best policy...So I appologise if my opinion is taken insultingly. It is not meant to be, in any way.
I'm sure it will be a very nice rifle, in an awesome caliber. Unfortunately it's still way ousidet of my price range...For just the price of a rifle itself.
If it were to come with a NF NXS 5.5-22x56 (reticle of choice) with a custom yardage turret for that rifle in that caliber, NF rings and NF picatinny base, 100 rounds of ammo, a 3-die set of reloading dies (FL sizing, neck-sizing, and seating dies), and a 28" sendero contour stainless fluted barrel with a radial muzzle brake.....That would be something I could see myself buying for $5,000.
If I had $5,000 to drop on a rifle.....It would be that exact rifle setup.
If you can afford a 5k rifle 6+ is not a big deal. At that price point guys will want full custom. I think Lazzeroni would be much better served going with a model priced around 2000. If it were me I'd build something like a Weatherby Accumark. You may not make as much per rifle but you'd sell more of them. Also more ammo and dies and components...
and that is the tough part ,,,,,,
MY COST on the SS CNC machined Lazzeroni receivers is $1K each ,,, JUST for the receiver ,,,, ((no barrel, stock, trigger, bottom metal or muzzlebrake/chambering etc)) just the receiver ,,,,,
to sell a rifle at retail for $2,000,,,, MY COST needs to be $1,100.00 for the COMPLETE rifle, on the floor ready to ship ,,,,, with dealer price at around $1500 ,,,,,,,
and that is bare MINUMUM profits for LazzInc and the dealer ,,,,,,,,
and there is not much room in those numbers for any advertising budget ,,,,,,,
it is just plain business ,,,,,, and the numbers are just not there for a Lazzeroni rifle in that price range ,,,,,
LOOK what Savage charges now for their tactical rifle in 338 Lapua ,,,,, now you are starting to see what this custom high-performance stuff costs ,,,,
MY COST on the SS CNC machined Lazzeroni receivers is $1K each ,,, JUST for the receiver ,,,, ((no barrel, stock, trigger, bottom metal or muzzlebrake/chambering etc)) just the receiver ,,,,,
to sell a rifle at retail for $2,000,,,, MY COST needs to be $1,100.00 for the COMPLETE rifle, on the floor ready to ship ,,,,, with dealer price at around $1500 ,,,,,,,
and that is bare MINUMUM profits for LazzInc and the dealer ,,,,,,,,
and there is not much room in those numbers for any advertising budget ,,,,,,,
it is just plain business ,,,,,, and the numbers are just not there for a Lazzeroni rifle in that price range ,,,,,
LOOK what Savage charges now for their tactical rifle in 338 Lapua ,,,,, now you are starting to see what this custom high-performance stuff costs ,,,,
MudRunner2005
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the explaination John. I had no idea the recievers were so costly on your end. Makes more sense now.
Thanks again for not getting offended, like I said, I didn't mean it to be so, I just wasn't in the know as for your cost of building a rifle.
Thanks again.
Thanks again for not getting offended, like I said, I didn't mean it to be so, I just wasn't in the know as for your cost of building a rifle.
Thanks again.
At the end of the day all one has to ask himself is, what do I want, is it worth it to me, and am I willing to pay the price?
I have seen multiple websites and fancy firearms, antiques, fully custom rifles like those from D'Arcy Echols, David Miller, etc., starting at $7K+ on up past $15K. Sure I'd love to own one but for what I do, and my average shot opportunities, the truth is, in 90% of my cases, none of my custom built rifles did anything better than a factory Ruger would have done. So I often say to myself (for me) that there's no firearm on the planet that is worth more than a few thousand bucks despite its quality. Then, I see youtube vids, DVDs from various long range guys, killing elk and moose with a 7mag and 6.5-284 at 925, 950, 1000+ yards and Berger bullets, accubond bullets, etc.
I have my limitations and desires. The rifles I have are built with quality components to my satisfaction for my budget. (But I'd still take an Echols or Miller rifle in a heart beat if I had the money)!
I don't know much at all about the Lazzeroni rifles and have never seen one. I've heard they are excellent.
I have seen multiple websites and fancy firearms, antiques, fully custom rifles like those from D'Arcy Echols, David Miller, etc., starting at $7K+ on up past $15K. Sure I'd love to own one but for what I do, and my average shot opportunities, the truth is, in 90% of my cases, none of my custom built rifles did anything better than a factory Ruger would have done. So I often say to myself (for me) that there's no firearm on the planet that is worth more than a few thousand bucks despite its quality. Then, I see youtube vids, DVDs from various long range guys, killing elk and moose with a 7mag and 6.5-284 at 925, 950, 1000+ yards and Berger bullets, accubond bullets, etc.
I have my limitations and desires. The rifles I have are built with quality components to my satisfaction for my budget. (But I'd still take an Echols or Miller rifle in a heart beat if I had the money)!
I don't know much at all about the Lazzeroni rifles and have never seen one. I've heard they are excellent.
Derek ,,,,,,,,
I will give you an example of WHY rifles built to the quality and performance level of a Lazzeroni, are worth every penny ,,,,,,,,
just this morning, I took a brand new Lazz model 2012LTH-XTLR (((see Lazzeroni Rifles ))) in the 7.82 (.308) Warbird caliber, 10-twist Schneider polygon 5-groove barrel, 5-25X56 Schmidt & bender mounted to a 20MOA cant rail, SEEKINS 34mm aluminum rings, drop compensator graduated in cm clicks ,,,,,, and headed to the range ,,,,,,
eye-balled the bore sight with the bolt removed, got on center paper at 100y with two shots ,,,, swung to 300 yards, shot two 3-shot groups while zeroing on the bullseye (first group 1 3/4 ", second group 1 1/4")) then loosened the compensator and set it back down on 5-clicks up from 0 ,,,,,
then swung to 550 yards ,,,,, ((500 meter range just outside of Tucson)) ,,,, turned drop compensator 18 cm clicks up from zero, put two 3-shot groups on the target at 3 3/4" and 2 7/8 " ,,,,,, and zero'd my windage adjustment at 550Y ,,,,,
packed up and drove to the other side of the range to set up at 1,000 yards,,,,, turned drop compensator up 54 cm clicks from 0, first 3-shot group at 6 3/4", second group at 9 1/4", was holding 3/4 mil-dot into a moderate gusting wind from the side (((I don't like to dial wind)) for both groups, adjusting slightly the wind hold for each shot, as the wind increased and decreased by feel ,,,,,
I was using OFF THE SHELF factory loaded Lazzeroni ammo, 168gr Sierra HPBT, NP3 coated and poured with reloader 19 powder ,,, muzzle velocity of the 168gr factory loads in my 25" barrel, at about 3,522 fps @ 72 degrees ,,,,,
I DID cull each individual case by neck run-out prior to heading to the range (((less than .002" to the good pile, greater than .002" to the barrel fouler pile)) out of a factory loaded box of 20, I generally get 16-18 rounds in the LESS-than .002" GOOD pile ,,,,,,
I am not sure how many off the shelf Remington and Ruger rifles will offer that kind of performance ,,,,,, and of course it would NOT be fair to expect them to, considering the price of their rifles, compared to the Lazz ,,,,
I will give you an example of WHY rifles built to the quality and performance level of a Lazzeroni, are worth every penny ,,,,,,,,
just this morning, I took a brand new Lazz model 2012LTH-XTLR (((see Lazzeroni Rifles ))) in the 7.82 (.308) Warbird caliber, 10-twist Schneider polygon 5-groove barrel, 5-25X56 Schmidt & bender mounted to a 20MOA cant rail, SEEKINS 34mm aluminum rings, drop compensator graduated in cm clicks ,,,,,, and headed to the range ,,,,,,
eye-balled the bore sight with the bolt removed, got on center paper at 100y with two shots ,,,, swung to 300 yards, shot two 3-shot groups while zeroing on the bullseye (first group 1 3/4 ", second group 1 1/4")) then loosened the compensator and set it back down on 5-clicks up from 0 ,,,,,
then swung to 550 yards ,,,,, ((500 meter range just outside of Tucson)) ,,,, turned drop compensator 18 cm clicks up from zero, put two 3-shot groups on the target at 3 3/4" and 2 7/8 " ,,,,,, and zero'd my windage adjustment at 550Y ,,,,,
packed up and drove to the other side of the range to set up at 1,000 yards,,,,, turned drop compensator up 54 cm clicks from 0, first 3-shot group at 6 3/4", second group at 9 1/4", was holding 3/4 mil-dot into a moderate gusting wind from the side (((I don't like to dial wind)) for both groups, adjusting slightly the wind hold for each shot, as the wind increased and decreased by feel ,,,,,
I was using OFF THE SHELF factory loaded Lazzeroni ammo, 168gr Sierra HPBT, NP3 coated and poured with reloader 19 powder ,,, muzzle velocity of the 168gr factory loads in my 25" barrel, at about 3,522 fps @ 72 degrees ,,,,,
I DID cull each individual case by neck run-out prior to heading to the range (((less than .002" to the good pile, greater than .002" to the barrel fouler pile)) out of a factory loaded box of 20, I generally get 16-18 rounds in the LESS-than .002" GOOD pile ,,,,,,
I am not sure how many off the shelf Remington and Ruger rifles will offer that kind of performance ,,,,,, and of course it would NOT be fair to expect them to, considering the price of their rifles, compared to the Lazz ,,,,
I have shot at a nice range just out side of Tucson when I lived there in the early 90s. I worked at Jensen's Custom Ammunition during the summers. My point was that the majority of my kills are 300 yards and under, so no need for a custom rifle at any cost in those situations. I just like them and prefer them
carnyman
Well-Known Member
Every product has to make a profit. I'm self employed and my product is priced on the high side. What I've found is by selling a few less at a higher price I can offer much better quality for the customers that choose my product. At the end of the day I get a much happier clientele and a lot of return business. While I may not be at everyone's price point those I am there for are happy.
Derek ,,,,,,
I agree with that ,,,,, but I do remember when I first went antelope hunting in the early 80s, and could not hit one of those critters at 300 yards to save my a_s ,,,,,,,,,,
now a 300 yard shot, is more an exercise in technology than shooting ,,,,, with 1 1/2- 2 1/2 " groups being the norm now ,,,,,,, our high speed Lazzeroni hunting rifles are more accurate today at 300 yards, than the prairie dog rifles of 30 years ago ,,,,,
just remember ,,, when that shot of a lifetime comes, at that trophy game animal that you have worked so hard to find, he may be at 200 yards or 800 ,,,,,
and it is nice to go into the field with a rifle, that can get it done at either of those ranges ,,,,,
I agree with that ,,,,, but I do remember when I first went antelope hunting in the early 80s, and could not hit one of those critters at 300 yards to save my a_s ,,,,,,,,,,
now a 300 yard shot, is more an exercise in technology than shooting ,,,,, with 1 1/2- 2 1/2 " groups being the norm now ,,,,,,, our high speed Lazzeroni hunting rifles are more accurate today at 300 yards, than the prairie dog rifles of 30 years ago ,,,,,
just remember ,,, when that shot of a lifetime comes, at that trophy game animal that you have worked so hard to find, he may be at 200 yards or 800 ,,,,,
and it is nice to go into the field with a rifle, that can get it done at either of those ranges ,,,,,
It seems to me the real advances in hunting rifles lately haven't been in rifles at all but rather in range finding equipment, portable ballistic solutions and bullets. Assuming you have a rifle and the skill that's up to the task, ultra flat shooting chamberings that shoot light to medium weight bullets, carry less of a premium than they used to. Once you hit the $4000 mark, you can get into just about anything you want but you'll have to wait and usually it's a one man show. If there's a problem, it could be half a year just to get him to look at it, if he's still in business. I don't have any problem with the price of Lazz rifles. Apparently they're accurate, reliable and well made. Placing your product at a price point where cost really isn't an issue because your customer can afford anything he wants makes sense in many regards. I can't afford the rifle or to shoot it but that's not a Lazz problem. That's a me problem. That said, I definitely don't think I'm ill prepared for the "hunt of a lifetime" because I'm not toting a Lazz rifle although if I was, I think I'd be confident it wouldn't misfire, have cycling problems and could punch a hole into what I was aiming at assuming I was within my capable range, I called the range/wind correctly and didn't yank the shot. My personal opinion is that at the sales price point, Lazz rifles should never be compared with factory offerings but rather high-end customs. I think the kind of guy that buys a Lazz rifle is the guy that's always wanted one.
Mike338 ,,,,,,,
I agree ,, but just remember that UNTIL the rifle and shooter ARE up to the task, all of the fancy ballistic solutions and scope mounted bullet drop compensators, do you NO GOOD ,,,,,
the original post, which is the subject of this thread, the 810Y shot on that beautiful coues deer I was lucky enough to shoot, that shot was made with a hold-over mil-dot scope, and a range finder ,,,,,,,
nothing else, no portable weather station, no handheld ballistics computer, no iPhone app ,,,, none of that ,,,,,
and the problem that I see today, is that all of these new shooters are led to believe that their iPhone app can solve everything along with the new scope adjsutment technologies ,,,, and that is just NOT the case ,,,,,
I agree ,, but just remember that UNTIL the rifle and shooter ARE up to the task, all of the fancy ballistic solutions and scope mounted bullet drop compensators, do you NO GOOD ,,,,,
the original post, which is the subject of this thread, the 810Y shot on that beautiful coues deer I was lucky enough to shoot, that shot was made with a hold-over mil-dot scope, and a range finder ,,,,,,,
nothing else, no portable weather station, no handheld ballistics computer, no iPhone app ,,,, none of that ,,,,,
and the problem that I see today, is that all of these new shooters are led to believe that their iPhone app can solve everything along with the new scope adjsutment technologies ,,,, and that is just NOT the case ,,,,,
