7mm Mag accuracy load help?

[Captainmorgan]

Greetings everyone,

I'm new to this forum and new to reloading.
Here is what I'm working/wresting with:
Fierce Fury Firearm in 7mm R.E.M. Mag. (1/2 moa 3shot guaranteed--ytbd)
Nightforce nxs 5.5-22x scope with weaver mounts.

The best factory ammo it shoots is winchester 150gr ballistic silvertips. I would get some groups to touch, then 1 moa but then over 10 shots, flyers out to 2 moa in no particular sequence. I'm using a lead sled and letting the barrel cool. I tried 8 different factory ammo tests, and spoke to Fierce. They said I can send it back but I decided to try and make my own ammo to shoot whitetail deer to 400 yards or more. I want 1/2 moa without the flyers!

So, based on a recommendation, I worked up a load with 7mm Barnes 145 gr LRX bullets from min to max charge every half grain until I settled with 63.5 gr of RL22 powder, using federal 215 primers and new nosler brass with a jump of .050 to the lands. Then, I made more and shot 3 shot groups moving the jump plus and minus .005 until I got .600 group at 100 yards. I finally thought I nailed it at .035 off the lands as I had 3 bullets in the same ragged hole at 100 yards! So, I made 15 more to test consistency and the groups fell apart! I tried groups of 5 this time and had holes touching then flyers out to 2" again in random sequence! Im frustrated now and need help!

I'm using rcbs competition dies, a digital chargmaster dispensing station holding the powder charge to 63.5 exactly. I even weighed the finished cartridges and they were all with .2 grains! Coal was within .001

Where do I go from here? Start over with nosler and a different powder??? I'm open to any suggestions....?

 

[lancetkenyon]

My hand load charge weights are always thrown electronically to within .3 grains below, the trickled up to the single kernel as measured on a Gempro 250 and verified on a calibrated RCBS 5-0-5 beam scale. The Gempro is capable of within .02 grains. Both the Gempro and RCBS 5-0-5 beam scale can detect and single kernel. Getting more precise with your charge weights will help quite and bit vs. within .2 grains.

The Barnes LRX are pretty good for accuracy. But you might want to try some Berger VLD or Hybrids. The Sierra Match King or Game King is another good alternative. Don't let the "Match" scare you off. They perform great on game. Also, going to a 160-183 grain bullet will really aid in less wind drift and downrange performance on paper and game.

Powder choice could help as well. I get good results with RL22 in 7RM and other cartridges, but it is a very temperature sensitive powder. Approximately 1fps per 1° of temperature variation. H4831 for the mid weight bullets, or H1000 for the heavier bullets works very well in my 7RM. I personally shoot a 180 Berger Hybrid @ 3000fps for hunting. H1000, Rem R-P brass, CCI 250 Mag primers. This combo shoots in the .3MOA consistently, and better in perfect conditions. Elk hate this load.

I do have a good load worked up with 168 Barnes LRX @ 3060fps as well for an area I hunt that requests the use of non-lead ammo to aid it the reintroduction of the CA Condor. Same brass, primer, and powder, slightly different charge weight. Not quite as accurate, but still at .6MOA consistently.

Consistency during loading is key. Sounds like your seating depth is good. Better control of charge weights will show results.

Personally, I hate the Lead Sleds. They are not all they are cracked up to be. Proper and consistent form will show much better results using a front and rear bag. Some rifles also shoot better with different input. Some like a lot of input, some like little to none from the shooter.

 

[dmj]

First of all welcome. There are a lot of good folks on here with a lot of good knowledge. As the above post mention consitency is one of the major keys to sucess. I'm not a profesional and hopefully other will chim in and offer some advise. You need consitant reloads, but your shooting form also needs to be consitant. Cheek weld, trigger pull, follow through, way you hold the rifle and etc. That's not even considering your concentration and pressure you are putting on yourself. Please understand Im not trying to run you down or in anyway be insulting. But from my personnal experience I would consider the fact that it could be me. Sounds like you have a nice rifle that shoots some pretty good groups with an ocassional miss hap. If you know someone else that is a good shot, maybe you could get them to shoot your rifle and see if the results are the same as yours. Again not trying to offend anyone, just pointing out something I'd consider if it was me doing the shooting. Good luck and have fun.

 

[11songdogs]

Captain Morgan,

I've got a Fierce Edge in a 7 Rem Mag. I'll be honest, I've really struggled to keep consistent sub-moa with this particular set-up. The 1/2" group that came with rifle was shot with a Barnes bullet. I would prefer not to shoot Barnes although I did load both 145 and 168 LRX through it while searching for the ideal bullet...

I'm still looking for a load. 160 AB has been the most consistent for me. I am now playing with some ELD-X 162's with 1/2" groups and some "flyers", just like you.
Let's stay in touch and see if we can't nail this down together...

 

[Captainmorgan]

I'm kinda feeling better hearing that someone else is experiencing the same issue with a fierce! Can I ask what your recipe is for success with the 160 AB's?

 

[11songdogs]

H1000 and H4831sc both are great powders. I couldn't get the retumbo to perform like it should with heavy bullets and the 7 mag.

My load is fairly slow with 62 grains of H4831SC. seated at .020". It'll put 10 of 15 in 3/4" the other 5 will dance around the MOA mark...CCI magnum primers.

Keep me posted on your load development!

 

[Captainmorgan]

Thanks for the info!

I will keep you posted on my results!!!

 

[LaHunter]

I shoot the 160 grain Accubonds with IMR 7828 with my 7mm rem mag and get sub .5 MOA out to about 700 yards, assuming the wind is not making an *** of me. But the gun / load combination is capable of that accuracy. For MY gun, I seat the bullets .015 from touching the lands. I measure that with a Hornaday compartor tool. Cartridge Base To Ogive (CBTO) is the measurement that you need to work with when seating your bullets. Do not waste your time measuring from Base to Tip. Also, you must re establish this measurement (CBTO) when you try different bullets in your rifle, since they will have a slightly different shape.

Hope that helps

 

[Captainmorgan]

Gents,

Here are my results from 150 ballistic silver tips, imr4350, wwbrass, 215pr and distance from the land is.035 using the hornady tool. I used to be a machinist and carefully crafted these as accurate as possible!

The best 5 shot group is 1.25" at 61.5gr then again at 63gr-max load according to Nosler. Looks like it might get better but I would have to exceed it. The speed isn't nowhere near what's published.

What next?
-stop there and move jump around now?
-keep changing powder charge?
-move on to different powder?

Thanks for input!!

 

[Dosh]

Cap, what is the barrel twist on your rifle? If it's 1:8 perhaps try the heavier Bergers (180 or 195gr. If it's 1:9-1:9.25 try the Berger 168gr offerings. The 168 Bergers have shot way sub-MOA @ 200yds for six 7mm RM rifles using H1000 and IMR7828SSC. I've witnessed this combo kill numerous elk and a couple big muleys. All never moved over 15yds, but one muley with poor shot placement (in the hip). Good luck

 

[tbrice23]

Gents,

Here are my results from 150 ballistic silver tips, imr4350, wwbrass, 215pr and distance from the land is.035 using the hornady tool. I used to be a machinist and carefully crafted these as accurate as possible!

The best 5 shot group is 1.25" at 61.5gr then again at 63gr-max load according to Nosler. Looks like it might get better but I would have to exceed it. The speed isn't nowhere near what's published.

What next?
-stop there and move jump around now?
-keep changing powder charge?
-move on to different powder?

Thanks for input!!

One of my 7mags ,a Rem. Sendero, was a problem child until I shot 150gr Ballistic Tips seated .035" jump with IMR7828 and CCI 250 primers.

Ballistic Tips are one of the easiest bullets to tune. I kind of believe that if a barrel won't shoot them something is bag wrong. I've had a couple of wierd factory barrels that just wouldn't shoot any other bullet. But once I tried NBT thing just fell together.

7828 WILL get you velocity also, my barrel is 26" and pushes the 150s at 3230fps.

This group shot at 200 yards.

 

[Jerry M]

Tag

 

[redbullitt]

Assuming the rifle is good to go and everything is tight. Optic and mounts as well.

I am unfamiliar with your rifle builder, but if they offer a guarantee on accuracy I'd think it'd shoot. Maybe have them take a look at it if you cannot get it shooting how you want. Did you get a proof target or anything with it?

I WILL say one thing that may be worth looking into. Check the scope out. I had the same model nightforce on a Desert tech... I could not get that 308 to shoot no matter what I did. In fact, my experience really seemed similar to yours. It was sporadically inconsistent for no apparent reason. It frustrated me beyond all belief. I changed the scope to an old mk 4 just on a whim and voila... it shot how it ought to. I sent the NXS to nightforce for warranty work and they found an issue with the parallax adjustment and a reticle/lense issue. Scope came back, and it was fine.

You CANNOT assume a scope is good to go no matter the brand or what it costs. There can always be issues. Try swapping the scope out and see what happens.

Can you have another shooter put down some groups, preferably someone you know can shoot well?

Your brass may be an issue... necks may be stiff and need annealed. That can cause inconsistent neck tension and make fliers happen. However, from your description it sounds like your handloads should be more consistent than the results you are getting. It also sounds like you have an excellent rifle and can shoot it well since you do get good groups, just inconsistent fliers.

Reloader 22 is temp sensitive, but I have never had issues with it that would cause what you are describing. It does really do well in my dads 7 mag, and it shoots well enough that we can live with the temp variation. It is an older rifle with I believe a 9 twist. It has shot well with 110 hollow points up to the 160 class bullets. All bullets did well with a little loading time.

I see you are measuring from the ogive, so that should rule out the coal being an issue. Your FPS spead looks pretty good too, so that confirms you are doing a good job loading.

If your loading practices and components and rifle setup are good to go, then start looking at the shooter. Even the best shooters can improve and should actively train to do so.

Pay special attention to all the details, especially the trigger press. Try to fire at a consistent point in your breathing cycle, namely the down time after you exhale but before you inhale. Be conscious of your cheek pressure on the stock, too much and it can cause issues. I find I am most consistent with a relaxed jaw, not a teeth gritted kinda thing lol.

Dry fire! Try to have at least 10 GOOD dry fires for every live round you put down range.

Personally I would lose the lead sled. Shoot the rifle the way you would normally shoot it. A lead sled zero is often not a good field zero... meaning it will not shoot to POA when you fire the rifle from prone position etc. Most importantly it does not really help build good shooting technique. Try a good set of sandbags and/or a bipod for bench shooting. I think you will find them to be better than the sled for most purposes, and definitely for bettering your shooting skills.

 

[bpcrshooter]

for my father an me, we use imr4831, norma mrp, h1000 and rl22. Im still working on loads for the h1000 and im at 74.5gr with fed 215, 160-162 (eld, interlock) and winchester brass, bullet set to 3.290coal. Norma shot the Hornady 160-162 interlock and eld's, and nosler partitions great!! 70gr, 160-162gr bullet, fed 215 and win brass coal is 3.30. All brass was annealed as well. FYI----- h1000 load data came from most recent propellent profiles book as it is over max in most data books. with both if these loads I am shooting .989 @200 meters and all I have is a 2-7 redfield, an I am NO expert at shooting long range.


Also It may be you!!! not saying your a bad shooter but, it could just be you moving/flinching.