7mm Allen Mag test rifle finished.....

Dave,

Yes I agree, my goal is 0.0002" over bullet diameter for all my Allen Mag rifles. Using Wildcat Bullets this is not a problem because of their consistancy. With other bullets this still works fine as long as loads are worked up from a safe starting loads.

The key to this is a quality reamer maker and a quality bullet maker and fitting the pilot precisely in the bore with the correct bushing size.

Good Shooting!!

Kirby Allen(50)
 
Kirby,

Do you tend to hold that tolerance for all your rifles? Example like my 25-284. You know I will be shooting Richards 120 ULD RBBT.
 
The loosest any of my Reamer throats are is 0.0005" over standard bullet diameter. I try to hold most of my Varmint/Target type rounds to around the 0.0002" range so yet your chamber throat will be very precisely fitted to those Wildcat 120s.

Kirby Allen(50)
 
Thanks Kirby.

I don't know if you recieved any of my emails or tried to respond. Haven't heard from you in a while. Can't wait for the new toy.
 
Did someone wisper 375?
Ben waiting for Richard to get to the 375!!!
While the 250g Barns and 260g Nosler may work good in the H&H,
they leave plenty to be desired when put in a
neckt down BMG @ 4000+fps.
Some sound thought and bullet development
make the Allen mags very viable!
 
Mach V,

Personally, I feel a 375 Allen Mag loaded with a lead core 400-425 gr ULR RBBT would be the ultimate in a long range heavy rifle. Hell, if a 1-10 338 barrel will spin a 350 gr ULD at 2800 fps, the 375 bore with a 1-10 should easily handle a 400 to 425 gr pill.

More to come on that front later!!

Kirby Allen(50)
 
Well, The weather finally colded down to below 95 degrees today so I headed out early to do a little load testing on the new 7mm Allen Mag.

Just to refresh, here are the specs of the rifle:

26.5" Shilen 1-9 6 groove stainless barrel
Fully accurized Rem 700
Fajen thumbhole sporter stock(pillared)
Holland Comp recoil Lug
Holland QD Muzzle Break
Gre Tan striker assembly
Weaver 4.5-14 Tactical Mil dot

As usual when I start load development for my wildcat rounds I am looking basically to find a working window of loads for a given powder so that I can then use that data in relationship to other powders to develope more load data.

My system is very simple a aggressive. I start a a given starting load and increase one grain for each test load until I reach roughly 105% load density.

My goal here is to find the load where the primer pockets just begin to loosen up and then I reduce the load appropriately to establish a working max pressure load for that combination of componants.

For the 7mm Allen Mag test I was using the 160 gr Accubond with a Fed-215 and AA8700. Basically because there is plenty of load data for this powder for the 7mm RUM which I used near top loads as a starting load for my Allen Mag.

I started at 100.0 gr and added one grain to each load until I reached 113.0 gr. Here are the results. Temps were in the 75 degree range.

100.0 gr............3255 fps Oily barrel
101.0 gr............3200 fps
102.0 gr............3231 fps
103.0 gr............3260 fps
104.0 gr............3323 fps
105.0 gr............3361 fps
106.0 gr............3426 fps
107.0 gr............3465 fps
108.0 gr............3427 fps ??
109.0 gr............3563 fps
110.0-113.0.........Did Not test

I learned several thing from this test, the first is that in the 107 gr to 108 gr range, there was just the slightest hint of the case being a bit sticky on extraction.

At 109.0 gr the bolt handle had to be lightly tapped to extract the case.

From this I feel that around 3480 to 3500 fps is the maximum velocity potential with this round and bullet in a 26.5" barrel. I was very curious to see what the primer pockets felt like when repriming the case so I ran back to the house and resized and reprimed the case.

There was not a loose case in the bunch!!! Even the 3563 fps load was new case tight!!

This is something I am not used to with the other Allen Mag as any of them would have blown primer pockets with this tight of a case. Of course this is why the stout 338 Lapua case was used for the parent case, almost exclusively for the strength of the case design.

It should also be noted that with every one of the other Allen Magnum rounds that were tested before I had the Full Length sizing dies topped out in what I though was high pressure several grains before what a full length sized case would produce.

For example, in the 270 Allen Mag with once fired brass only neck sized, 100.0 gr of WC872(3270 fps) is the max load and case extraction is slightly sticky. With a partially full length sized case, I am able to load up to 103.0 gr (3396 fps) with actually easier case extraction then at the neck sized 100.0 gr load.

The reason is because these case designs are so min taper in the case body.

Often I can take a once fired, neck sized case and chamber it in a rifle and then eject it without firing and it to is slightly sticky in the chamber. When the case is partially full length sized though it falls out of the chamber.

So what does this mean, well, if the 7mm Allen Mag holds true to the behavior of the rest of its siblings, the 3563 fps load should be totally usible once the Redding Full length sizing dies arrive which should be any time. We will have to wait and see??

I also realized that 8700 is slightly fast in burn rate for this bullet weight and case capacity as I was only about 90% load density at the 107-108 gr load range. This is certainly very quality load density and should be extremely consistant but I suspect WC872 will offer the 100 to 102% load density I love to get with slightly less pressures and equal velocity.

So how does this compare to other big 7mm rounds. Well the 7mm RUM has printed load data in the 3200-3300 fps range with this bullet weight in a 26" barrel. Actual chrono testing I have done results in very similiar top end performance.

Even if I have to use the 107.0 gr load at 3465 fps, basically we are dealing with +150 fps advantage over the 7mm RUM in a case that is only 2.700" in length!!!

Running some numbers real quick makes me think that very near 3200 fps may be reachable in this 26.5" barrel!!! Not to mention a much longer and much faster 3 groove Lilja at 30"!!

Lazzeroni lists his 7.21 Firebird at 3500 fps with this bullet weight in a 27" 1-12" twist barrel but I have yet to see a rifle not built by Lazzeroni and not using his specially undersized bullets in slow twist barrels come within 75 to 100 fps of his printed velocity results.

This would put the 7mm Allen Mag roughly 75 to 100 fps over the Firebird in performance which is exactly what we were expecting to get. This holds true as the Sako 7.62 Warbird rifle we have ran roughly 75 fps faster then the 300 RUM in same length barrels.

This matches the performance of the 7mm RUM compared to the 7.21 Firebird as well.

Taking into account that this rifle right now is throated so that the 160 gr Accubond loaded round has an Over All Length of only 3.595" and that production rifles will be throated to allow the selected bullet of choice to be loaded to 3.650 to 3.700" oal, we will gain even more performance. Not much really but more.

I will next be testing WC872 with this bullet weight and see how it compares to 8700 in velocity and pressure.

Then it will be onto the 140 gr Accubond for some +22-250 Rem velocites with a 140 gr bullet!!! Looking to push the 3800 fps range with this bullet in this barrel length. We will see. AA8700 may be the powder of choice for this bullet. Slightly quick burning for the 160 gr bullets, so should be a great match for the 140-150 gr class bullets.

I am also getting in some 175 gr bullets for testing as well with WC872 as this bullet weight is where the 7mm Allen Magnum should really start to perform well.

I was happy with accuracy today. Shot the 10 test shots into two, 5 shot groups which measured 3/4" and right at 1" for each with three shots in the first going into 3/8" and 4 shots in the second going into the .4"s. Not bad considering the very light barrel and all loads being different.

Will report more soon when I get the data.

Kirby Allen(50)
 
In a thirty inch tube you should reach 3800 FPS with the 140's very easily. My 30 inch tube 30-338 will shoot moderate load at 3750 tp 3800 FPS any thing past that is too hot for my taste. I have pushed my thirty past 3900 with the 150's, put thats a hot load. I love high b.c heavy bullets for punching paper, put at ranges under 6 or 7 hundred yards these guns really kill with light bullets. I have had exit wounds with my 30 laupa and 150 interbonds that you could place a basketball inside. You have a killing machine it fits in well with the rest of the family of high performance hunting cartidges.
 
Well, took a 1/2 hour early this morning to run out and do a bit more testing with the 7mm Allen Mag. Same powder, AA8700 but this time the 140 gr Accubond.

Personally I feel this bullet is a bit light for the 7mm Allen Mag but like the 100 gr in the 257 AM and the 130 gr in the 270 AM it will work very well as a minimum bullet weight.

AA8700 seemed a bit slow for this bullet weight, had a full case before topping out in pressure. Still a pretty good balance. A slighty better powder may be Ramshot Magnum as it is supposed to have the same burn rate as Retumbo, which along with Rl-25 would also be top choices for this bullet weight.

Anyway, Starting with 109.0 gr and stopping at 114.0 gr the 7mm Allen Mag topped out at 3750 fps with the 140 gr Accubond. Accuracy was in the 1/2 to 5/8" range from the 26.5" #4 contour barrel. Very acceptible.

Unlike the 160 gr Accubonds which topped out in pressure, the 140s did not, the last load at 114.0 gr which was roughly a 103% load density extracted fine. Velocity really did not gain much from 112 to 114 gr so I figure the powder is a bit slow for this barrel length as it is burning about as much as it can in 26.5" of barrel.

THis was really just an experiement to see what the lighter bullets would do. I was looking to push 3900 fps in a 30" barrel with this bullet weight and I may be slightly less then that. Switching to a faster powder may yet reach this level of velocity.

I personally feel it is easier to drive a heavy bullet to high velocities then a light bullet to hyper velocities. In this big case, along with all the other Allen Magnums, the lighter bullets still perform well and are faster then any other conventional rounds but their true advantage will come with the heavies which Richard told me are on the way last night!!!

Just an update...

Kirby Allen(50)
 
Fiftydriver,
Very impressive for a 26.5" barrel!
I ran these numbers in Ballistic Explorer in case any one
cares to see them.

Kirby7AM.jpg
 
Eaglet,

Thanks for the comparision, basically these two loads are extremely similiar out to their limits which are certainly imposed by the bullets used. The big ULD RBBTs will add 500 yards to their max effective range at least is my predictions as well as the longer barrels helping dramatically.

Still, pushing 1400 ft/lbs of energy at the 1/2 mile mark with conventional bullets is not to bad in my opinion, especially in the conventional length barrel /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif! Plus with more then enough remaining velocity for full bullet expansion een on light game.

Thanks again for the comparisions!

Kirby Allen(50)
 
Fiftydriver,
as the barrel length approaches 30" and an increase of BC by using the ULD RBBTs not forgetting we usually hunt a much higher elevations , you definately got a winner in your hands!
It's what I call a full time, all the time, none descriminatory, wind bucking, none MOA sucking, long range killing machine!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Eaglet,

I just received an e-mail that my order of Lapua 338 brass should be here tomorrow so I will be able to test some more with the 7mm Allen Mag.

Next up is the 175 gr Sierra to see how she runs. Talked with Richard the other night and he said I sould be getting those big 200 gr ULDs here soon. I think I will have to load a few up with WC872 and shoot them over the chrony just to see what this 26.5" barrel will drive them to.

I know they will probably key-hole on paper but they will let me know what velocity I will get. After seeing what the 160s did in this barrel length, I look to push 3200 fps even with this shorter barrel.

I had a guy call me tonight wanting to know if I would take a Lilja barrel on trade. It was a 1-9 twist stainless 27" blank in 7mm. Only thing is that it was a VERY light #2 contour!!!

I am thinking real hard about this barrel, a Rem 700 fully accurized receiver and a 20 oz McMillan Hunters Edge stock. Can you imagine 3550 fps with a 160 gr Accubond in a 7 lb rifle??!!!

The good thing is that when you were hunting, if it took three shots to get your game, you would be ready to cook some fresh meat as the barrel would be smokin!!!

I may have to try this, what do you think?

Kirby Allen(50)
 
I don't know how you do it, Fiftydriver, but you got us all interested. My goodness, there is already almost 1500 topic views with a five star rating!

It is going to get interesting with the Sierra 175 gr. since the BC=0.608, though the conventional bullets you have already used are not bad at all.

On the 200 gr ULDs, would you be able to give me some idea on the BC for it? I'd like to continue posting the ballistic tables.

[ QUOTE ]
I am thinking real hard about this barrel, a Rem 700 fully accurized receiver and a 20 oz McMillan Hunters Edge stock. Can you imagine 3550 fps with a 160 gr Accubond in a 7 lb rifle??!!!


[/ QUOTE ]
Man! you know how to make it sound good! Very tempting!!! 4222 ft-lb of energy at 50 yards for anything that gets too close and 1220 ft-lb at 1000 yards if you need to reach out. All in 7 lbs... very tempting!!!

[ QUOTE ]
The good thing is that when you were hunting, if it took three shots to get your game, you would be ready to cook some fresh meat as the barrel would be smokin!!!


[/ QUOTE ]
LOL... iT WOULD BE! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif still an awesome rifle!
 
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