338 Edge bullet for elk

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by buckbrush, Apr 19, 2011.

  1. buckbrush

    buckbrush Well-Known Member

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    I’m going to have another 338 Edge with a more pack-friendly heavy sporter contour in about 27" finish length. I am wondering what bullet would be best for elk. When I plug the numbers into the ballistics calculators, the 300 SMK blows most of the others away with regard wind drift and energy but the impact velocity is so slow I don’t know if it will open up on game. The 225 and 250 Accubond also drop below 1800 fps at 1150 yards or so. This doesn't extend the range of an Edge a whole lot more than my 300 Win with 210 Bergers. I believe 1800 fps is what Nosler states as the minimum impact velocity. Am I all wrong in my thinking? Lighter bullets would make recoil more pleasant also.

    What are everyone’s thoughts?

    Thanks.
     
  2. Varminator 911

    Varminator 911 Well-Known Member

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    Go with the 300 SMK or Berger and don't worry about the impact velocity. Both bullets will kill as far away as you can make a good hit.

    You'll need a brake so bullet weight effect on recoil isn't much to worry about IMO.
     

  3. RH300UM

    RH300UM Well-Known Member

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    A 338 Norma Mag would be perfect for the barrel length and barrel contour you are thinkig about. 300 SMK would be the ticket. Ever considered a Norma Mag?
     
  4. sp6x6

    sp6x6 Well-Known Member

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    Shawn C. has many animals in the dirt w/300 smk,past 1000, and is one of the few to test berger hybrid gen.2. I had gen 1 shoot good in my norma, but velocity was lower, may come back to it. I have some 285 Hornadys to try soon. I have probably shot 15 elk with 225 hornady back when it was one of the few available, out of 340 WM.
     
  5. MontanaRifleman

    MontanaRifleman Well-Known Member

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    I hear tell, that GS is coming out with a 270 gr LR hunting bullet soon in the .7-.8 range. How soon, I don't know. Cutting Edge also has a 275 gr bullet that they advertise with a .76 BC @ 3000 fps with. If in fact the BC's are accurate, that gives them an equal BC with less mass, which means more velocity and better LR ballistics.

    I've been working with both the GS 177's and CE 180's in my 300 RUM and I don't have any conclusive results yet, other than both are giving better velocities than the conventional bullets. Initial shooting shows the GS bullets are giving me the best velocities and the CE's are giving me the best accuracy as far as I can tell at this point, but I need some more trigger time to sort it out better. At present, I'm shooting these out of a factory barrel. Hoping to be shooting them out of a custom before long.

    About the LR GS bullets... They have a very long nose and the ogive is a very short distance form the brass mouth, meaning... a short throat is probably best IMO. With the CE bullets, the throat length may vary depending on which form you use.

    For max effective range based on "minimum expansion velocity", according to the ballisitc calcs, my 300 RUM shooting the GS's or CE's will significantly out distance the the 338-300 RUM shooting the SMK or Berger. The 338-300 RUM or 338 LM will arrive down range with more momentum and KE shooting the cup and core bullets. Windage will be close, and drop & TOF will favor the lighter faster bullets.

    Ain't this fun :)
     
  6. Topshot

    Topshot Well-Known Member

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    The Hornady 225 grain Interbond is an excellent long range bullet for the .338 Edge. See photo below of one recently taken from an animal out of a .338WM at 330 yards.
    A full report on these bullets and their low velocity impact ability can be read at this link.

    http://www.austargets.com/lowvel.htm

    Also a comparison to the Accubond here....... http://www.austargets.com/Interbond.htm

    [​IMG]
     
  7. sp6x6

    sp6x6 Well-Known Member

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    MT Rifleman, I ran the #'s on 285 vs 300 and I dont recall my velocity on 285, for my norma. Think I tried 2800, guessing vs. 2725 for 300 hyb. that I HAVE SHOT.What do you think would be realistic 285 accuracy velocity? Anyway Steve on this site shoots a 300-338 lapu I,with that 177 HVGS bullet at 3680 vel., I had a BC of .638, thought I pulled it of there site, which is hard to navigate. The #'s on my 285 vs 300, where about same mil drops out to 1200, with 285 about 200 less E across the board.
     
  8. MontanaRifleman

    MontanaRifleman Well-Known Member

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    Are you asking about the Cutting Edge 275? I wouldn't have a clue what the accuracy velocity will be. Probably different in every rilfe and load. I know I was getting good accuracy at max velocity of about 3470 or so with the CE .308 180's compared to my velocity of about 3400-3420 with the 180 E-Tips. I've been seeing the GS 177's get to about 3550. Accuracy hasn't been the best, but my Sendero has been acting up a bit. My usual sub .5 MOA load with the 180 E-Tips has been shooting about 1.25 MOA last couple of times out. Last time out, I shot a .39 group (with one fouler flier) with the CE bullets right after shooting a 1.25 group with the E-Tips. I followed that up with 2 groups with the GS 177's that measured about the same as the E-Tips. Like I said, the accuracy results are not IMO conclusive at this point, especially shooting one type of bullet on top of another type.

    I know if I had a .338, I would be looking at both the CE 275 and the new GS offering coming out soon.
     
  9. buckbrush

    buckbrush Well-Known Member

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    I really didn't want to get into the custom bullet realm since it might become a little cost prohibitive to shoot.

    Those Hornady Interbonds sound pretty appealing. I might just end up using the standby SMK too. I shot a cow last year with it in my big heavy Edge at 540 yards or so and it knocked her on her butt pretty hard.
     
  10. MontanaRifleman

    MontanaRifleman Well-Known Member

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    The GS bullets are quite costly, but if their advertised ballistic advantage (BC and Velocity) is true they can theoretically increase your max effective range by close to 50% and increase closer range overall effectivens with greater velocities, KE Momentum, less windage, less drop, less TOF.

    Comparing the 300 gr Hybrid with a BC of .82 with an MV of 2850 vs the GS 177 with a BC of .62 and MV of 3550, the 177 wins in every category except wind @ 1000 yds.

    5000' elev

    Drop 20.5/14.75 MOA
    Vel 1953/2251 fps
    KE 1524/1938
    Mom 50.22/56.15
    10 mph wind 38.8"/40.0"
    TOF 1.27/1.07 sec

    1800 fps distance, 1175 yds/1375 yds (the GS expands down to 1600 fps)

    The CE bullets at half the price don't seem to be far behind the GS bullets.

    I figure if I go with the GS bullets, I'll only use them for hunting and occasional proficiency and drop checking. For other shooting, I'll use another load, and/or another rifle.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2011
  11. 300spanker

    300spanker Well-Known Member

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    MTRIFLEMAN,
    I JUST RECIEVED MY SHIPMENT OF GS 177, i too love the velocity and the ballistics. however, this bullet only shoots well against the lans, we have not had good luck off the lans. my gunsmith is shortening throat for me currently. also the 338 bullet i think will be in the 250 grain arena.
     
  12. Long Time Long Ranger

    Long Time Long Ranger Well-Known Member

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    Keep us informed on the new cutting edge and GS bullets. I have a couple 28" 300 RUM's that are extremely accurate and have made kills over 1000 yards with the 208 Amax at 3210 fps. But over 3500 fps sounds pretty good.

    As far as long range elk with the 338-300 RUM it is a wash to me between the 225 AB and the 300 SMK. If you are going to shoot elk beyond 1000 yards with it then the 300 grainers are the way to go. But the cartridge is best suited shooting the 225 AB inside of 1000 yards. To shoot the 300 grain bullet at elk beyond 1000 yards there are better choices in 338 for that purpose. So in my opinion it leaves the 338-300 RUM best suited shooting lighter and flatter shooting bullets inside 1000 yards. It will kill an elk at 1200 or so yards with the 300 grainers but there are several faster 338's better suited for that purpose.You could kill an elk at a mile with one just to say you did it but there are much better choices. Just run the ballistics with the 300 grainers at 3100 fps vs 2800 fps and you will see what I mean. I have been doing this a long time and we had this figured out many years ago. The introduction of the 300 smk in the late 90's just made the big guns even better at super long range.

    The problem is as you get to the max effective range of this cartridge either bullet gets there and kills the elk. If a guy is going to shoot at elk at 1200 or so yards he is best suited with a cartridge that can push the 300 grainers beyond 3000 fps. I think it is best inside 1000 yards and at that range I like the 225 AB because of way less drop and not a lot in windage difference. I have shot many animals beyond 1000 yards with BC's in the .5's, no problem. BC's sometime get in the way of making the right choice. Shooting targets is all BC's. Shooting animals there is more to consider. You have got to make the shot with the right bullet that will do the job. At lower velocities the 225 AB seems to perform better than the 300 SMK with the hits I have seen. So it keeps the safe killing distance with this cartridge at about the same with either bullet as far as bullet performance. However if there is much unsteady wind hits with the 300 smk are easier beyond 1000 yards.

    I just play it safe and use the best odds using my RUM stuff and smaller inside 1000 yards with the 225 AB and if I am going long range hunting I shoot the 300 SMK out of one of my big 338's at 3050-3150 fps. With one of these I still can beat the 30's shooting 177's at 3500 fps. These big 30's are still going to hit that 1200 yard or so barrier where the big 300 SMK starting out around 3100 fps can go further. Not saying I can't take my 300 RUM with a 177 GS and kill an animal at 1500 yards because I could if I hit him right. By barrier I mean best effective range not what it will actually do under the right circumstances.
     
  13. 300spanker

    300spanker Well-Known Member

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    Here is some additional results of the GS 177. 104 grains of h1000 is giving me 3650fps in a 28 inch barrel. sounds way over max, but the bearing surface as you may know is ultra short plus those drive bands?? i am concerned about long range performance and expansion of this bullet. another great bullet we are having success with is the 180 gr. JLK long boattail version. 3450 fps, 99 grains of retumbo. we have shot lots of deer and antelope over the past two years with the jlk. performance has been flawless at all distance 117-809 yards. i was shooting the 210, but at 3450 velocity i save 20 inches or so at 1000 yards, so i switched to the 180 lbt. I also tried the new barnes long range in the 175 and the 200 grain versions, no bueno por me! i want to try the hornady 225. do we know if they will offer an amax verion of the 225, spoke to a guy named doug in technical at hornady and he said the 208amax is still the old jacket not the amp. that didn't sound right. also have we heard anything about the 230 grain berger in the future, what about the 338 berger hunting bullet?? my snipetac will be done in july.gun)
     
  14. sp6x6

    sp6x6 Well-Known Member

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    In a new thread Shawn C, put the gen 2 berger 300 in a 5'' TYPE GROUP at over 1000 and shot them out to 1800, he liked them. I shot my gen ones into 1'' at 400