338 AM assembled, pics....

Kirby, looks like you had some good testing too /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif You will notice with this big case, it takes big jumps to get a noticed difference in velocity changes, on the 408 you need two grains to see any change. I ran the numbers on QuickLoad and it says 33" all the powder is burnt, so that is prolly why not much change. I did expect you to get more vel out of the 40" tube, but its a crap shoot and guessing game. I checked my primer pockets, I have been using the same 6 cases, they have been shot 4 times ea. I have 3 cases that the primers are loose.(but i used a Sinclar pocket reamer-uniformer) it removed material around the pocket and not just the depth. This may have shortened the case life. I tried a virgin brass that didnt have the pocket reamed, after two heavy loads the primer is still tight. Maybe the reamer is too large, i noticed the primers seat easy after using it. I am no longer going to use this on a 408 case.

The 350 bullets i have are not moly coated, a guy gave them to me to try as his lapua would not shoot them either. they may be several years old. [image][/image]

Do you figure a 35" barrel would be all anyone needed in this cal? For hunting a 32" would be perfect. Maybe even a 30" for weight reasons. IF a 30" would produce 3300fps, that still is remarkable.

Dave
 
Crow Mag:

Corn meal method for forming uses a fast powder, like Unique or 4198, about 40-45 grns, fill with cornmeal to the top, put a wad of toilet paper on top to hold together. Take off any muzzel brake and fire. you will need to clean with a patch or brush after 5 shots, just to remove residue.
There is no recoil, but it is loud! use lower powder charges in smaller cases. belted mags use around 30grns. It will form the case about 95%.

Dave
 
BD408,

I think 35" would be about perfect for this capacity and bore diameter.

The 338 bores are very efficent anyway, but I though the 140-150 gr capacities would still need or benefit from 40" of barrel, proved wrong on that one.

I think anything from 30-35 fps will work great. Just have to get more rifles out there to figure a fps per inch of barrel relationship with these big 338s. Seems it is very little different from the 338-378, 338 Kahn class of rounds.

More testing to come. I think the very tight bore on this Lilja is limiting velocity more then anything to be honest. What bushing diameter did you use to chamber your 338 Sniper Tac with the Lawton barrel?

Good Shooting!! Got to get to work!!

Kirby Allen(50)
 
Kirby,

On the Lawton bbl i used a 329.5 bush, on the Mike Rock bbl i had to use a .329

That was my whole thinking on bbl length when i got this bbl several years ago, it was 35" to start. I cut off and re-chambered it when i changed the reamer specs. I am glad it dont need yards of steel to work, makes it easy for a hunting rig setup.

I will be testing the Rock bbl this week, we will see what the difference is in the tighter bore and twist rate.

Dave
 
Fifty, due you have any suggestions for me inregards to a rest for my big rifle. As I mentioned it will weigh around 65lbs and it will have a 5" forend, I am using the 50HBR. I was hoping you might have some suggestions.

Thanks
Wildcat
 
I just decided to run the numbers for the 300gr Match King going 3500fps and the 350 gr ULD RBBTs incase anyone else was as interested as me. Hopefully I save you guys some time. Here is what I found…

Wind – 10mph
Temp – 75 degree
Pressure – 29.92 in Hg
Sight height - 2.5 (Probably where the Ivey rings are if not higher)

300gr Match King
Drop inch Drop MOA Wind inch Wind MOA
1000yds -153.7 -14.7 36.5 3.5
1500yds -455.2 -29.0 92.4 5.9
2000yds -1039.5 -49.6 187.3 8.9


350 gr ULD RBBTs (.90 BC with the G1 function)
Drop inch Drop MOA Wind inch Wind MOA
1000yds -179.3 -17.1 34.2 3.3
1500yds -511.8 -32.6 85.1 5.4
2000yds -1123.1 -53.6 168.6 8.0


What drag function are you guys using for the 350 ULD's? I ran these numbers using the standard G1. It looks like it won't be a problem getting to 2000+yds with standard tapered bases and a good scope. I'm also somewhat surprised that the 300gr MK's are still beating the 350 ULD's in terms of drop at 2000.

DB and Fifty – what are you guys using for dies?

Fifty- I cant believe you are able to load those on the rockchucker!! I use that press for the majority of my loading but need to go to a larger press when loading for my 470 nitro. I would have assumed that the cases were somewhat comparable in size. It' is probably due to the thick round nose bullets.

Awesome thread guys…

Rem 1
 
Remington:

I have a old Holywood press that will load BMG cases easy, has 1 1/2" x 12 threads. I also have a rockchucker that works fine also, takes 1 1/4"x12 dies The overall length is 4.140 loaded. I make my own dies for this round, full length sizer, neck bushing dies and comp type seaters.

Dave
 
Most any quality mechanical rest will easily handle this weight. The problem is the 5" wide forend and that is why most choose the 50LBR or similiar stock with no larger then a 3.5" forend.

3.5" is even big for most front rest bags that I have seen. Most will handle up to 3" wide forends and thats about it.

With the 5" wide forends, most guys I know shooting them have had customer heads made for their mechanical rests. This can be spendy but it about the best way to get the correct equipment for these forends.

I have never owned a 5" forend. All my 50s have been either bipod supported in front of 3.5" forends no big 5"ers.

I would suspect getting a custom head made for a front mechanical rest will be the best way to go.

The rear support can either be a bag or another rear mechanical rest which is very popular with the flat bottom 50BR stocks to offer easy elevation adjustment instead of having to reach across the shooting bench to adjust the front support.

Good Shooting!!

Kirby Allen(50)
 
I dont know if this is a worthwhile rest or not but for me and BJ's big gun project we are gonna use the Caldwell BR-1000. It has a 5" head on it and seems pretty sturdy.

Neither one of use has used a mechanical front rest before so I dont really know what to look for in one. this thing weighs just shy of 22lbs and seems pretty solid.

If any of you guys have used these tell if it is *** or not. Our project will have the same stock as yours and about the same weight.

good luck
steve
 
Rem,

Don;t get to hung up on bullet drop. It is an important area to look at but only one. More importantly to me is wind drift. IF you look at that area, the 350 handily beats the 300 gr SMK past 1500 yards. My purpose for this rifle will be shooting from 1500 to possibly as far as 2 miles so the advantage just continues to grow for the 350 gr ULD RBBT at longer ranges.

For ranges under 1500 yards, there really is no benefit to the 350 gr bullet as far as drop and drift are concerned, but again there are other areas of performance that need to be considered. Momentum, energy, penetration, all of these are factors we need to figure with these bullets.

Remember what the SMK is, a match bullet. Yes it performs well on big game simply from shear bullet weight and high SD but it is what it is, a relatively thin jacketed match bullet. Drive it to 3500 fps and hit a bull elk in the shoulder at 500 yards if the chance arose and there may be issues.

Hammer that same elk with a 350 gr ULD RBBT Wildcat Bullet at even 50 yards and you will not have a problem at its 3200 fps. Its a stout bullet in comparision so there are advantages for both designs. The good news is that the 338 AM and 338 Sniper Tac, when fitted with the proper twist barrel will work great with both bullets offering even more range of performance.

As far as predicting BC. I generally just use the G1 factor to get an estimated drop chart and then hit the range and see what really happens when bullets get in the air over real distances. Then tweak the ballistic chart to match actual bullet flight.

Just a couple other numbers that may be of interest here comparing a 300 gr SMK at 3500 fps to a 350 gr ULD RBBT at 3200 fps.

At 2000 yards
retained velocity

1410 fps vs. 1434 fps

Inspite of the 300 fps advantage at the muzzle, the pokie 350 gr pill is actually faster. Now with that in mind, remember its 50 grains heavier in bullet weight.....

2000 yard energy numbers

1324 ft/lbs vs. 1598 ft/lbs

May not seem like alot but remember that velocity and energy are the two factors that work together to make a bullet perform on target. They do not determine killing power on game but they do effect how a bullet performs terminally.

Also lets look at teh Taylor KO value for each.

2000 yards TKO value:

20.4 vs. 24.2

Thats nearly 25% more for the 350 gr pill.

Simply put, the farther you shoot, the better the 350 gr ULD RBBT will perform compared to the 300 gr SMK. I think we can all say they are both extremely potent at all ranges.

To be fair also, we have just started testing the 350 gr ULD RBBT at these velocities. We may very well be able to get more FPS out of this bullet yet. IF we can get 3300 fps that really starts to change things in this comparision.

For example, if we are looking at 2 mile shooting, thats 3520 yards, that extra 100 fps is huge with this bullet if we can get it. You hear all the time that 100 fps will not make any difference, well look at these numbers. All for the 350 gr ULD RBBT, one at 3200 fps and the other at 3300 fps.

Velocity and energy really do not change much, in that regards the comments are correct but lets look at Time Of Flight at 3520 yards:

6.976 sec vs. 6.774 sec

Again, does not seem like alot but it is espeically when you consider the 300 gr@3500 fps has a TOF of 7.04 at that same range!!!

Even more dramatic is bullet drop at 2 miles:

-6500" vs. -6105"

Thats 400" less drop, over 33 FEET less drop at this range by simply adding 100 fps to the muzzle velocity.

Also, wind drift drops

647" vs 629"

Only 18" and many would say that is insignificant at that range but when your pushing the envelope that hard, every inch counts.

We will simply have to see how these bullets drop out of super sonic velocity to see if they will be consistant enough at these ranges. Time will tell.

Good Shooting!!

Kirby Allen(50)
 
[ QUOTE ]
Most any quality mechanical rest will easily handle this weight. The problem is the 5" wide forend and that is why most choose the 50LBR or similiar stock with no larger then a 3.5" forend.

3.5" is even big for most front rest bags that I have seen. Most will handle up to 3" wide forends and thats about it.

With the 5" wide forends, most guys I know shooting them have had customer heads made for their mechanical rests. This can be spendy but it about the best way to get the correct equipment for these forends.

I have never owned a 5" forend. All my 50s have been either bipod supported in front of 3.5" forends no big 5"ers.

I would suspect getting a custom head made for a front mechanical rest will be the best way to go.

The rear support can either be a bag or another rear mechanical rest which is very popular with the flat bottom 50BR stocks to offer easy elevation adjustment instead of having to reach across the shooting bench to adjust the front support.

Good Shooting!!

Kirby Allen(50)

[/ QUOTE ]Fiftydriver,
after reading your response to wildcat ,I know exactly what you are talking about. after I got my rifle with the 50HBR stock and tried every thing I could find. there is nothing made for this behemoth of a stock, so I spent every night for a month designing and fabricating a rest (it works very well) It would have been much easier to have used the 50LBR and spent those nights loading shells instead.
UB
 
Fiftydriver,
Excellent rifle and post.
Just curious about your opinion on the best bullet brand/wieght for the 338 lapua case?
I like the 300smk, but do you think the lapua could push the 325,350gr. WC's fast enough to compete at longer ranges with the smk? What are the bc's for the WC's?
 
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