EddieHarren
Well-Known Member
Ballistic is correct! Both are same caliber-.308. Only the cartridge differs.
.308 max killing range
- Thread starter parlaan
- Start date
Help Support Long Range Hunting Forum
[ QUOTE ]
The reason for the "HUGE risk" was I was responding about the .308.
[/ QUOTE ]
The first set of distances you were given would represent the distance at which the correct .308 diameter bullet would penetrate and expand suficciently to kill the listed animal. You would have to supply the time and effort and money to get the bullet into the kill zone for each animal. That is what this website is dedicated to helping you do. It will not happen on its own. The person who responded to you is capable of such shots.
[ QUOTE ]
The reason it matters that I said fairly small is the .300 winchester magnum is a big caliber.
[/ QUOTE ]
The diameter of the bullet from a .308 winchester and a .300 win mag are identical. The energy they put behind the bullet is not. They poke the same size hole. The hole from the .300 will tend to be deeper.
The recoil from the .300 normally is not unbearable if you can shoot a .308 in the same weight gun. By switching to a heavy barrel gun or by adding a muzzle brake the recoil is reduced farther. For most adults the recoil from a .300 win mag set up properly for long range hunting is not a reason to pass up on that option. Conversly, the energy from a .308 winchester is not so small that one would pass up on that option either if you can place your bullet precicsely where you want it.
The reason for the "HUGE risk" was I was responding about the .308.
[/ QUOTE ]
The first set of distances you were given would represent the distance at which the correct .308 diameter bullet would penetrate and expand suficciently to kill the listed animal. You would have to supply the time and effort and money to get the bullet into the kill zone for each animal. That is what this website is dedicated to helping you do. It will not happen on its own. The person who responded to you is capable of such shots.
[ QUOTE ]
The reason it matters that I said fairly small is the .300 winchester magnum is a big caliber.
[/ QUOTE ]
The diameter of the bullet from a .308 winchester and a .300 win mag are identical. The energy they put behind the bullet is not. They poke the same size hole. The hole from the .300 will tend to be deeper.
The recoil from the .300 normally is not unbearable if you can shoot a .308 in the same weight gun. By switching to a heavy barrel gun or by adding a muzzle brake the recoil is reduced farther. For most adults the recoil from a .300 win mag set up properly for long range hunting is not a reason to pass up on that option. Conversly, the energy from a .308 winchester is not so small that one would pass up on that option either if you can place your bullet precicsely where you want it.
RBrowning
Well-Known Member
Dave,
I thought that you were immune to Political Corectness fever. You went and told the guy the truth then you come down with the "308 ain't a long rang gun" infection and you broke right down didn't ya!
I hear that putting 1000 yards between your target and the muzzle of your favorite 308 will have you felling better in no time.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
I thought that you were immune to Political Corectness fever. You went and told the guy the truth then you come down with the "308 ain't a long rang gun" infection and you broke right down didn't ya!
I hear that putting 1000 yards between your target and the muzzle of your favorite 308 will have you felling better in no time.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Inukshuk
Well-Known Member
Here's another question to your question to maybe help a bit better.
What is the minimum energy needed for a one shot kill for the prey listed?
What is the minimum energy needed for a one shot kill for the prey listed?
Explain how energy aids in the wounding process..As long as the projectile has enough wieght and speed to pentrate into the vitals the it will kill effectively.An arrow kills quite well when placed properly iy kills quite effectively despite minimal energy........ /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
remingtonman_25_06
Well-Known Member
So called "expert gunwriters" always have there theory on how much energy and velocity you need to cleanly take animals. They are part of the average society and think alike. On the other hand, guys that hang around here know better then to listen to them "experts".
It doesn't take 1000ft lbs to kill deer, and it sure dont take 1500-2000 lbs to cleanly take elk.
As JWP mentioned, as long as your bullet is going fast enough to reliably expand and make it to the vitals, your going to have your animal reguardless.
I"ve seen deer shot with 55g NBT out of 22-250 and swifts at 400-450 yards where there only carrying 500ft lbs at most, and they got leveled as if they were hit with anything else. Its all about shot placement and knowing your limits.
From what I've seen and read from experienced people, deer are relatively easy to kill. Poke a hole through the vitals with anything and there going to die. I figure 500-600 lbs is plenty for deer, and 1000 ft lbs is plenty for elk. For reliable expansion, I like 1500fps of impact velocity or more. I know these numbers are quite lower then what them experts say, but I've seen plenty of deer/elk killed with those kinds of numbers with no problems.
And if you really wanna get technical about it, look how many animals died from the mighty 30-30. That cartridge dont even have 2000 ft lbs of energy at the muzzle, I doubt it. Maybe, I dont know, I dont care for the 30-30, but that dont mean it didn't kill its fair share of elk. See what I mean??
It doesn't take 1000ft lbs to kill deer, and it sure dont take 1500-2000 lbs to cleanly take elk.
As JWP mentioned, as long as your bullet is going fast enough to reliably expand and make it to the vitals, your going to have your animal reguardless.
I"ve seen deer shot with 55g NBT out of 22-250 and swifts at 400-450 yards where there only carrying 500ft lbs at most, and they got leveled as if they were hit with anything else. Its all about shot placement and knowing your limits.
From what I've seen and read from experienced people, deer are relatively easy to kill. Poke a hole through the vitals with anything and there going to die. I figure 500-600 lbs is plenty for deer, and 1000 ft lbs is plenty for elk. For reliable expansion, I like 1500fps of impact velocity or more. I know these numbers are quite lower then what them experts say, but I've seen plenty of deer/elk killed with those kinds of numbers with no problems.
And if you really wanna get technical about it, look how many animals died from the mighty 30-30. That cartridge dont even have 2000 ft lbs of energy at the muzzle, I doubt it. Maybe, I dont know, I dont care for the 30-30, but that dont mean it didn't kill its fair share of elk. See what I mean??
Inukshuk
Well-Known Member
jwp475
The reason I mentioned energy was because I was told on forums that for my 30-06 I needed at least 1,000 lbs of energy to effectively kill a caribou. Unless I have been misled here and elsewhere.?
The reason I mentioned energy was because I was told on forums that for my 30-06 I needed at least 1,000 lbs of energy to effectively kill a caribou. Unless I have been misled here and elsewhere.?
remingtonman_25_06
Well-Known Member
caribou are relatively easy to kill. I hardly doubt you need 1000 ft lbs to harvest them. I would think more along the lines of minumum of 600-700 ft lbs, at most 800.
Inukshuk
Well-Known Member
Good food for thought and I'm way no good on the tech side of things.
I learn from what I read on forums etc. So far this is what I've gathered.
I think the energy ft lbs is good to know, especially in long distances since it would be harder to hit in vital areas the farther away they are. " but then as you say knowing your limits". Also it would help in the choosing of ammo by checking their ballistics table. Anyways that's what I've been doing for a while. Weather it's necessary for me to do so well??
[ QUOTE ]
So called "expert gunwriters" always have there theory on how much energy and velocity you need to cleanly take animals. They are part of the average society and think alike. On the other hand, guys that hang around here know better then to listen to them "experts".
It doesn't take 1000ft lbs to kill deer, and it sure dont take 1500-2000 lbs to cleanly take elk.
As JWP mentioned, as long as your bullet is going fast enough to reliably expand and make it to the vitals, your going to have your animal reguardless.
I"ve seen deer shot with 55g NBT out of 22-250 and swifts at 400-450 yards where there only carrying 500ft lbs at most, and they got leveled as if they were hit with anything else. Its all about shot placement and knowing your limits.
From what I've seen and read from experienced people, deer are relatively easy to kill. Poke a hole through the vitals with anything and there going to die. I figure 500-600 lbs is plenty for deer, and 1000 ft lbs is plenty for elk. For reliable expansion, I like 1500fps of impact velocity or more. I know these numbers are quite lower then what them experts say, but I've seen plenty of deer/elk killed with those kinds of numbers with no problems.
And if you really wanna get technical about it, look how many animals died from the mighty 30-30. That cartridge dont even have 2000 ft lbs of energy at the muzzle, I doubt it. Maybe, I dont know, I dont care for the 30-30, but that dont mean it didn't kill its fair share of elk. See what I mean??
[/ QUOTE ]
I learn from what I read on forums etc. So far this is what I've gathered.
I think the energy ft lbs is good to know, especially in long distances since it would be harder to hit in vital areas the farther away they are. " but then as you say knowing your limits". Also it would help in the choosing of ammo by checking their ballistics table. Anyways that's what I've been doing for a while. Weather it's necessary for me to do so well??
[ QUOTE ]
So called "expert gunwriters" always have there theory on how much energy and velocity you need to cleanly take animals. They are part of the average society and think alike. On the other hand, guys that hang around here know better then to listen to them "experts".
It doesn't take 1000ft lbs to kill deer, and it sure dont take 1500-2000 lbs to cleanly take elk.
As JWP mentioned, as long as your bullet is going fast enough to reliably expand and make it to the vitals, your going to have your animal reguardless.
I"ve seen deer shot with 55g NBT out of 22-250 and swifts at 400-450 yards where there only carrying 500ft lbs at most, and they got leveled as if they were hit with anything else. Its all about shot placement and knowing your limits.
From what I've seen and read from experienced people, deer are relatively easy to kill. Poke a hole through the vitals with anything and there going to die. I figure 500-600 lbs is plenty for deer, and 1000 ft lbs is plenty for elk. For reliable expansion, I like 1500fps of impact velocity or more. I know these numbers are quite lower then what them experts say, but I've seen plenty of deer/elk killed with those kinds of numbers with no problems.
And if you really wanna get technical about it, look how many animals died from the mighty 30-30. That cartridge dont even have 2000 ft lbs of energy at the muzzle, I doubt it. Maybe, I dont know, I dont care for the 30-30, but that dont mean it didn't kill its fair share of elk. See what I mean??
[/ QUOTE ]
Energy is just a number on paper, there are other things that mean for more than FPE(such as projectile diameter and point design).When I get back to my home computer I will email some pictures(if someone will post them for me) of exit holes in an Elks ribs and the hand gun exit is MUCH larger than the exit from my 300 win even thou the 300 had about 2.5 times more energy....... Oh yea the handgun round had less than 900 FPE and the bullet was a Flat point hard cast(no expansion),but flat points produce alot of damage, although not suited to long range shooting as we are into here.......... Think of this a 220 pound football player running at 30 feet per secound (a 10 flat hundred yards) generates over 3000 FPE and this does not take into account any other persons speed or wieght (and many players are larger and faster)yet no one is killed when they run together despite over 3000FPE
Desert Fox
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2002
- Messages
- 439
Here's the metal target shot with my 308 at 300 and 600 yards respectively. As you can see, at 600 yards, the bullet barely scratched the paint, eventhough there's still over 1000 ft/lbs of energy left at that distance. That's a difference of 700 ft/lbs of energy between 300 and 600 yards. IMO, the 308 is good up to 700 yards on a deer size target.
Speed is the most import aspect of penetrating metal. Shoot a 1/2" mild steel plate at 50 yards with a 22-250 55 grain varmint bullet and it will leave a large and bulge the back side. Shoot the same plate with a 250 grain from a 44 mag and the crater will barely be visable. Next shoot a boar hog in the shoulder with each and guess what the 44 out pentrates the 22-250 BTDT. I also agree that past 700 yards you are stretching the 308 on game, but several gentleman here have made one kills farther than 700 with the 308.......... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Desert Fox
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2002
- Messages
- 439
Proper shot placement is the key when using this cartridge beyond 500 yard. I witness a friend gut shot a mule deer at a distance of 450 yards and the deer took-off like nothing happen to it. His follow-up shot, broke the deer's spine. Even then, the deer was able to crawl using his front leg, trying to get away. The 3rd and last 165 Nosler Ballistic Tip on his Savage, finally end the deer's demise. On the other hand, another buddy, drop a mule deer at 605 yards with one shot, using his Remington 700. His 308 was loaded with 168 grain Barnes TSX. The difference between the two was shot placement. The second deer was hit behind the shoulder destroying both lungs. The deer took a couple of step and drop.
I'm going use my 308 for the first time this year hunting. My goal is to better two of my previous 600 plus yard record on deer. 700 + perhaps? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gifWe shall see.
I'm going use my 308 for the first time this year hunting. My goal is to better two of my previous 600 plus yard record on deer. 700 + perhaps? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gifWe shall see.
