Which bullet for big game (300. win mag)
- Thread starter matt_3479
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matt_3479
Well-Known Member
Im hoping the 210's will shoot cause thats the bullet i plan on using. it has great BC and everyone seems to have phenomenal performance from them
Broz
Well-Known Member
Well don't try to tell this first time elk hunter I took out this year they don't work. 12 yrs old and dumped a cow at 320 yards. All I did was tell him where he wanted to put the bullet before the shot. And told him do not shoot the elk, shoot that small spot on the elk. DRT!
Jeff
Jeff
matt_3479
Well-Known Member
Broz, you have a gorgeous rifle there!! whats the specs on it? whats that thing weight?
Broz
Well-Known Member
Thank you! Here are the specs, except te Kreiger didn't cut it so I had a Broughton 5C installed soon after the build was completed. I wanted to update the post but there is no edit option now.
Jeff
http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f19/my-new-300-win-build-55269/
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matt_3479
Well-Known Member
Im excited to get this build started! hope mine turns out as nice as yours. I expect mine to weigh about a pound more then yours. It will be my long range hunting rifle.
I was hesitant about this build until this season ended then i realized i will suck it up and drop the cash. Last three years, the animals have been just out of my rifles capabilities and my capabilities with the rifle.
3 years ago i had been using a remington 7mm mag with a cheap tasco scope and only practiced up to 250 ( before my interest in long range) had a large black bear step out 435 yards. I tried the stalk and got winded. I went home and began practicing right away. I had purchased a Browning A-Bolt (couldn't pass on the deal) and through a PST 4-16x50 moa/ffp scope on top. I had good .5 moa groups at 300 yards no problems there. 400 yards and the groups began opening up, moa groups. And at 500 yards i had the groups that weren't exactly acceptable. That year i had a monsterous moose step out at 550 yards even. Largest moose i have ever seen and my father has ever seen got away. This year i went to montana and did an elk hunt and had a few opportunities on elk at close range but just couldn't get the shot off and had 1 perfect opportunity at an elk at 580 yards at the bottom of the clear cut, and 640 yards to the top. due to location we had to just walk away. I came home and decided right there and then to get working on a build and the information i listed is what i came up with. That will hopefully get started soon and will be my first long range hunting rig. luckily cause of school i can afford to start it a little late cause im not sure if i will be getting out for the hunting season this year.
I have a weekend planned for a bear hunt with some close buddies, borrowing his parents cottage and im hoping to get time to do my Moose hunt again if not then it will be a weekend whitetail hunt again.
I was hesitant about this build until this season ended then i realized i will suck it up and drop the cash. Last three years, the animals have been just out of my rifles capabilities and my capabilities with the rifle.
3 years ago i had been using a remington 7mm mag with a cheap tasco scope and only practiced up to 250 ( before my interest in long range) had a large black bear step out 435 yards. I tried the stalk and got winded. I went home and began practicing right away. I had purchased a Browning A-Bolt (couldn't pass on the deal) and through a PST 4-16x50 moa/ffp scope on top. I had good .5 moa groups at 300 yards no problems there. 400 yards and the groups began opening up, moa groups. And at 500 yards i had the groups that weren't exactly acceptable. That year i had a monsterous moose step out at 550 yards even. Largest moose i have ever seen and my father has ever seen got away. This year i went to montana and did an elk hunt and had a few opportunities on elk at close range but just couldn't get the shot off and had 1 perfect opportunity at an elk at 580 yards at the bottom of the clear cut, and 640 yards to the top. due to location we had to just walk away. I came home and decided right there and then to get working on a build and the information i listed is what i came up with. That will hopefully get started soon and will be my first long range hunting rig. luckily cause of school i can afford to start it a little late cause im not sure if i will be getting out for the hunting season this year.
I have a weekend planned for a bear hunt with some close buddies, borrowing his parents cottage and im hoping to get time to do my Moose hunt again if not then it will be a weekend whitetail hunt again.
Long Time Long Ranger
Well-Known Member
The best bullet I have found for my 300 winchester for hunting performance from close range to long range is the 180 grain Cutting Edge bullet. I use the C21 and the C32. I am getting near a .6 bc from the C21. Run it on JBM and see what you come up with. Add about 50-75 fps over your standard 180 grain bullet velocities which is about where my rifles shoot on average with these bullets.
brentc
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2009
- Messages
- 2,635
IMO you are doing a great disservice to your 300 mag when you settle for using less than a .630 BC bullet, especially at long range. The 300 Win. has the capability to fire heavier bullets fast enough to get the full benefit of the high BC of the heavies. The average 180-190 grain bullet carries around a .500-.550 BC, which at one time wasn't bad, but you have many more options to utilize the the cartridge for what it was intended for and that is to carry energy to greater distances than cartridges like the 30/06.
Although you can be effective with the 168-190 grain loads at higher velocity, in most cases the average hunting bullet pales in comparison to high BC bullets in the 300 mags due to two extremely important benefits #1 wind resistance and #2 energy delivery.
For long range shooting BC is king for several reasons. Although, your muzzle velocity will be lower with most high BC bullets because of the heavier weight associated with them your downrange energy, and wind bucking ability will more than make up for the lack of velocity.
For instance, let's look at the average 180 .505 BC fired at a velocity of 3100 fps, elevation 5000 ft, at 700 yards distance, retained velocity = 2115 fps, and energy at 1788 ft lbs, wind drift with 10 mph full value wind = 3.50 MOA or 26.2 inches
Now take a look at a high BC Berger 215 hybrid, .696 BC at 2850 fps, 5000 ft, 700 yards, retained velocity= 2133 fps, and energy of 2172 ft/lbs, wind drift with 10 mph full value wind = 2.75 MOA or 20.3 inches
And this is only at 700 yards, the numbers and benefits only get better the further out you get.
Although you can be effective with the 168-190 grain loads at higher velocity, in most cases the average hunting bullet pales in comparison to high BC bullets in the 300 mags due to two extremely important benefits #1 wind resistance and #2 energy delivery.
For long range shooting BC is king for several reasons. Although, your muzzle velocity will be lower with most high BC bullets because of the heavier weight associated with them your downrange energy, and wind bucking ability will more than make up for the lack of velocity.
For instance, let's look at the average 180 .505 BC fired at a velocity of 3100 fps, elevation 5000 ft, at 700 yards distance, retained velocity = 2115 fps, and energy at 1788 ft lbs, wind drift with 10 mph full value wind = 3.50 MOA or 26.2 inches
Now take a look at a high BC Berger 215 hybrid, .696 BC at 2850 fps, 5000 ft, 700 yards, retained velocity= 2133 fps, and energy of 2172 ft/lbs, wind drift with 10 mph full value wind = 2.75 MOA or 20.3 inches
And this is only at 700 yards, the numbers and benefits only get better the further out you get.
gcamp54
Well-Known Member
Broz
Well-Known Member
It shot 1 1/2 moa even after 100 rounds of wasted time and compoenents. The Broughton shot 1/2 moa with ease and a load was found quickyl. I have Keigers that shoot very good, but I believe I simply got a bad barrel.
Jeff
Long Time Long Ranger
Well-Known Member
Accuracy loads out of my 300 winchesters at sea level 100 yard zero.
180 Cutting Edge C21 at 1000 yards. drop 218", windage 57", 1791 fps, 1282 ft pounds.
210 Berger same parameters. Drop 273", windage 62", 1619 fps, 1222 ft. pounds.
What disservice?
The primary difference would be the energy with the CE 180 bullet would be very close since it retains around 95% of it's weight as a premium hunting bullet. The lead core bullet, of whichever manufacturer, depending on what velocity you hit the animal could lose quite a bit of weight therefore making energy figures with it useless.
This is a hunting forum and not a target forum so one thing hunters with limited experience need to look at is not using a bullet that exceeds the capability of your cartridge where range is concerned. Shooting targets at extreme long range well beyond 1000 yards a shooter would benefit by shooting a much heavier and greater BC bullet since killing performance is not a concern. A heavy for caliber bullet such as the Hornady Amax, Sierra matchking or Berger VLD for instance. But with hunting you must look at other parameters such as what is the top range my cartridge would be acceptable on big game performance. Then look at the best bullet for big game performance within that range. Also a bullet that performs well on game at 50 yards at high velocity and then at 1000 yards at slow velocity. 1000 yards is about where a guy should limit the 300 winchester and maybe closer on elk size game. At that point he should look at a cartridge with more performance.
Killing animals at long range is far more than just picking a bullet that looks good on a ballistics program.
I just wanted to come in here and add another important factor. I use my 300 winchester as a light backpack style rifle good to somewhere between 800-1000 yards. With the 180 grain bullet it is a pleasure to shoot and I can easily hold steady on long range targets with it. With heavy bullets it will knock the living crap out of me. I do not want a muzzle brake on this type of rifle. If I use a muzzle brake or heavier rifle it is in a cartridge with far greater capability for long range hunting than a 300 winchester. The set up I use with the 300 winchester is excellent for a light rifle to 800-1000 yards. Scoped out it weighs 7 1/4 pounds. If I went with the heavier bullet that knocked the crap out of me then I am defeating the purpose to begin with and am going larger cartridge. If I shoot a heavy rifle I may as well shoot it in something with 1500+ yard capability. No difference in weight or hiking with it. My equipment is highly refined for a particular purpose when I pick that particular rifle up to go hunting.
180 Cutting Edge C21 at 1000 yards. drop 218", windage 57", 1791 fps, 1282 ft pounds.
210 Berger same parameters. Drop 273", windage 62", 1619 fps, 1222 ft. pounds.
What disservice?
The primary difference would be the energy with the CE 180 bullet would be very close since it retains around 95% of it's weight as a premium hunting bullet. The lead core bullet, of whichever manufacturer, depending on what velocity you hit the animal could lose quite a bit of weight therefore making energy figures with it useless.
This is a hunting forum and not a target forum so one thing hunters with limited experience need to look at is not using a bullet that exceeds the capability of your cartridge where range is concerned. Shooting targets at extreme long range well beyond 1000 yards a shooter would benefit by shooting a much heavier and greater BC bullet since killing performance is not a concern. A heavy for caliber bullet such as the Hornady Amax, Sierra matchking or Berger VLD for instance. But with hunting you must look at other parameters such as what is the top range my cartridge would be acceptable on big game performance. Then look at the best bullet for big game performance within that range. Also a bullet that performs well on game at 50 yards at high velocity and then at 1000 yards at slow velocity. 1000 yards is about where a guy should limit the 300 winchester and maybe closer on elk size game. At that point he should look at a cartridge with more performance.
Killing animals at long range is far more than just picking a bullet that looks good on a ballistics program.
I just wanted to come in here and add another important factor. I use my 300 winchester as a light backpack style rifle good to somewhere between 800-1000 yards. With the 180 grain bullet it is a pleasure to shoot and I can easily hold steady on long range targets with it. With heavy bullets it will knock the living crap out of me. I do not want a muzzle brake on this type of rifle. If I use a muzzle brake or heavier rifle it is in a cartridge with far greater capability for long range hunting than a 300 winchester. The set up I use with the 300 winchester is excellent for a light rifle to 800-1000 yards. Scoped out it weighs 7 1/4 pounds. If I went with the heavier bullet that knocked the crap out of me then I am defeating the purpose to begin with and am going larger cartridge. If I shoot a heavy rifle I may as well shoot it in something with 1500+ yard capability. No difference in weight or hiking with it. My equipment is highly refined for a particular purpose when I pick that particular rifle up to go hunting.
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Franklin
Well-Known Member
So, you call a lathe turned copper bullet, with a hole drilled in it, a premium hunting bullet? They've only got 2 pictures (that I could find) on their website of bullets recovered from animals. One banana peeled and the other didn't do much besides flatten the nose. I'm not saying they don't work well, but to call them a premium hunting bullet might be a stretch.
liltank
Well-Known Member
My brother-in-law shot a mulie last year at 1400yd with the 252 CE bullet. The deer not got out of its bed. One shot and flop went its head. As far as I am concerned, they work.
