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Rifles, Reloading, Optics, Equipment
Long Range Scopes and Other Optics
Where to level?!
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<blockquote data-quote="WiscGunner" data-source="post: 2236434" data-attributes="member: 97288"><p>I think too many people stress over theoretic issues that don't actually pan out in real life.</p><p>For those following the tennis racket analogy it is great for the system after the scope is mounted firm to visualize what happens with a canted reticle but does not apply to mounting a scope as the handle (scope) and the string frame (bore) would need to be separate components allowing for the frame to rotate but the handle to remain vertical.</p><p></p><p>The rifle needs to be held consistently. Period. If that means canted to the shoulder pocket works best for you, great! If you also shoot offhand such as in PRS then a somewhat leveled receiver will work better along with an unbiased cheek riser when switching from right/left shoulder. If you only ever shoot from one shoulder then a somewhat leveled receiver with an cant adjusted but plate to fit the shoulder is the best option.</p><p></p><p>If a rifle if non-adjustable and leveled at the receiver yet canted ever time it is shouldered causing the shooter to relevel each shot then this is not setup correctly.</p><p></p><p>Ultimately the reticle (non-adjusting holdovers) and/or the reticle travel are what needs to be adjusted to level. The scope body, the turret cap, the scope base, the scope base screw head, the receiver top, the receiver bore, the receiver rail, the chamber, the barrel OD/ID, the Barrelbore/scopr bore all are irrelevant and will vary in error from rifle to rifle.</p><p></p><p>Each shooter needs to choose how they will shoot their rifle and level or adjust the rifle for that method....THEN level the scope reticle OR the reticle travel to plum.</p><p></p><p>Just about any cant misalignment of the barrel bore from the scope bore will have inconsequential results, ESPECIALLY for hunting. Any fans of doing MATH can attest to this. </p><p></p><p>WORST CASE SCENARIO</p><p>Rifle is 90 degrees on its side with scope plum and an exaggerated mounting height of 3 inches. At 0 yards to infinity the bullet will be 3" offset from the point of aim. If this is how your setup is situated simply leave it be or zero your windage at half your total expected distance.</p><p></p><p>NORMAL SCENARIO</p><p>Rifle is rotated 2degrees from scope axis with the same exaggerated 3" scope height. This will be .0666" offset. This is not adjustable in the scope clicks. A well leveled receiver might be within 1* and out of level starts to visually appear around the 3*+ range. Still insignificant. Now consider most people do mot have a 3" scope height and the error is even smaller. Barrel/liad harmonics, heart beat, and frog farts will affect the POI more than this error.</p><p></p><p>Now for those people that live in theoretical space like an engineer, please consider the quality of the measuring instruments before calculating the stacking tolerances of the components. These people should only use only use $1000 levels as the standard .25cent bubble level installed in most commercial fixtures has insufficient accuracy by itself. Now stack tolerances of error in how this cheap bubble level tube is mounted in the fixture body. Not suitable for the precision many in this discussion are asking for.</p><p></p><p>Now if .03333" or less per degree is too much error for you system then a double axis 8-way adjustable laser center aligned with the bore would get your bore best aligned with the scope tube bore BEFORE installing lenses that would skew the image when offset from their own center as is necessary to adjust zero.</p><p></p><p>Moral of the story, don't over think it and verify your real world results.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="WiscGunner, post: 2236434, member: 97288"] I think too many people stress over theoretic issues that don’t actually pan out in real life. For those following the tennis racket analogy it is great for the system after the scope is mounted firm to visualize what happens with a canted reticle but does not apply to mounting a scope as the handle (scope) and the string frame (bore) would need to be separate components allowing for the frame to rotate but the handle to remain vertical. The rifle needs to be held consistently. Period. If that means canted to the shoulder pocket works best for you, great! If you also shoot offhand such as in PRS then a somewhat leveled receiver will work better along with an unbiased cheek riser when switching from right/left shoulder. If you only ever shoot from one shoulder then a somewhat leveled receiver with an cant adjusted but plate to fit the shoulder is the best option. If a rifle if non-adjustable and leveled at the receiver yet canted ever time it is shouldered causing the shooter to relevel each shot then this is not setup correctly. Ultimately the reticle (non-adjusting holdovers) and/or the reticle travel are what needs to be adjusted to level. The scope body, the turret cap, the scope base, the scope base screw head, the receiver top, the receiver bore, the receiver rail, the chamber, the barrel OD/ID, the Barrelbore/scopr bore all are irrelevant and will vary in error from rifle to rifle. Each shooter needs to choose how they will shoot their rifle and level or adjust the rifle for that method....THEN level the scope reticle OR the reticle travel to plum. Just about any cant misalignment of the barrel bore from the scope bore will have inconsequential results, ESPECIALLY for hunting. Any fans of doing MATH can attest to this. WORST CASE SCENARIO Rifle is 90 degrees on its side with scope plum and an exaggerated mounting height of 3 inches. At 0 yards to infinity the bullet will be 3” offset from the point of aim. If this is how your setup is situated simply leave it be or zero your windage at half your total expected distance. NORMAL SCENARIO Rifle is rotated 2degrees from scope axis with the same exaggerated 3” scope height. This will be .0666” offset. This is not adjustable in the scope clicks. A well leveled receiver might be within 1* and out of level starts to visually appear around the 3*+ range. Still insignificant. Now consider most people do mot have a 3” scope height and the error is even smaller. Barrel/liad harmonics, heart beat, and frog farts will affect the POI more than this error. Now for those people that live in theoretical space like an engineer, please consider the quality of the measuring instruments before calculating the stacking tolerances of the components. These people should only use only use $1000 levels as the standard .25cent bubble level installed in most commercial fixtures has insufficient accuracy by itself. Now stack tolerances of error in how this cheap bubble level tube is mounted in the fixture body. Not suitable for the precision many in this discussion are asking for. Now if .03333” or less per degree is too much error for you system then a double axis 8-way adjustable laser center aligned with the bore would get your bore best aligned with the scope tube bore BEFORE installing lenses that would skew the image when offset from their own center as is necessary to adjust zero. Moral of the story, don’t over think it and verify your real world results. [/QUOTE]
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