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What can't .223 kill?
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<blockquote data-quote="AussieHunter" data-source="post: 410572" data-attributes="member: 17671"><p>In response to 7 Loader, I hear ya brother in regards to wounded enemy and the .223Rem (5.56 Nato) but is there really a perfect military Round? Sure 7.62x51 Nato I would agree that in the combat areas the we are in at the moment where we need long range hitting powder at the small unit/squad level Its a much better round for desert warfare where rangers are long ( beyond 600 +) and also the house clearing issue of mud and cinder block penetration is a issue, Every round has its issues and you can be sure that what ever round you are issued today for this battle won't be the correct round for the next war, Hey we could go back to the 45-70Gov and blow every son of a bitch completely of his feet from the other side of a cinder block and yet you could still get over run and stabbed by the enemy due to the fact that you just can't carry enough of those big heavy rounds around with you all day? 7.62x51 while its just a bit to much gun for humans strictly speaking I think is probably the best option at this point in time as it can still be made available at this time (and is) it has the reach and hitting power needed for open desert warfare as apposed to close quarter jungle warfare, it was said some years ago that we (the west) would never fight another desert war?? so much so that the Britt's sold all their desert cams to Iraq and then when the went the gulf war the poms were wearing woodlands cams and their enemy were wearing British Desert cams ?? just how smart are the people that do our thinking for us defence wise??? Of all the rounds that Iv seen put up as the ultimate military cartridge I still think that the .280-British Nato was probably it(7mm NATO) the Brits actually adopted it but the USA refused to adopt any thing that was foreign and NOT .30-Cal despite how good the 280-Nato was in the British EM-2 weapon, ( see it on Utube and listing on <a href="http://www.ammoguide.com" target="_blank">www.ammoguide.com</a> ) That was not the best choice that US has ever made, The .280 Nato would have worked out OK in Vietnam and should do quite OK in todays environment as well? had the US adopted the British idea back then things today may be very different and to that end Iv considered building a lite weight sporting rifle in the 280British just so that I can test it for myself ballistically ? years ago a friend of mine built a 7mm-08 on a Remington sort action just before or about the time that Remington got around releasing it as a factory standard case it was a fine shooter but on heavier game that we hunted I felt that it was just a little underpowered Thus the .280Nato would be more so, How ever we are talking enemy combatants and FMJ versus Hunting and soft point ammo and the two applications are streets apart, which is mostly the case with my former comments with the 5.56Nato/ .223Rem with the rite twist and pill it is a great little hunter that can preform out of its league but all rounds have their limits. I guess that's why there are so many different rounds out there. Iv also noted in a report that I read the preferred weapons of all of what has been tried and tested over there in the Ghan and Iraq at this time are all WW2 era weapons and that would make sense as it is desert warfare again and all of the older systems have been tried and proven and any bugs were worked out and sorted a long time ago, Aain't it strange how what was once old is new again and its hard to improve on perfection but there is always some NEW Kid on the block that thinks that he can? In closing its only fair to say the senior Russian officials would also prefer to return to the tried and proven 7.62X39mm AK-47 round over the smaller dia: AK-74 and I guess its for the same reason that the 5.56Nato is disliked at this time Militarily speaking. gun)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="AussieHunter, post: 410572, member: 17671"] In response to 7 Loader, I hear ya brother in regards to wounded enemy and the .223Rem (5.56 Nato) but is there really a perfect military Round? Sure 7.62x51 Nato I would agree that in the combat areas the we are in at the moment where we need long range hitting powder at the small unit/squad level Its a much better round for desert warfare where rangers are long ( beyond 600 +) and also the house clearing issue of mud and cinder block penetration is a issue, Every round has its issues and you can be sure that what ever round you are issued today for this battle won't be the correct round for the next war, Hey we could go back to the 45-70Gov and blow every son of a bitch completely of his feet from the other side of a cinder block and yet you could still get over run and stabbed by the enemy due to the fact that you just can't carry enough of those big heavy rounds around with you all day? 7.62x51 while its just a bit to much gun for humans strictly speaking I think is probably the best option at this point in time as it can still be made available at this time (and is) it has the reach and hitting power needed for open desert warfare as apposed to close quarter jungle warfare, it was said some years ago that we (the west) would never fight another desert war?? so much so that the Britt's sold all their desert cams to Iraq and then when the went the gulf war the poms were wearing woodlands cams and their enemy were wearing British Desert cams ?? just how smart are the people that do our thinking for us defence wise??? Of all the rounds that Iv seen put up as the ultimate military cartridge I still think that the .280-British Nato was probably it(7mm NATO) the Brits actually adopted it but the USA refused to adopt any thing that was foreign and NOT .30-Cal despite how good the 280-Nato was in the British EM-2 weapon, ( see it on Utube and listing on [URL="http://www.ammoguide.com"]www.ammoguide.com[/URL] ) That was not the best choice that US has ever made, The .280 Nato would have worked out OK in Vietnam and should do quite OK in todays environment as well? had the US adopted the British idea back then things today may be very different and to that end Iv considered building a lite weight sporting rifle in the 280British just so that I can test it for myself ballistically ? years ago a friend of mine built a 7mm-08 on a Remington sort action just before or about the time that Remington got around releasing it as a factory standard case it was a fine shooter but on heavier game that we hunted I felt that it was just a little underpowered Thus the .280Nato would be more so, How ever we are talking enemy combatants and FMJ versus Hunting and soft point ammo and the two applications are streets apart, which is mostly the case with my former comments with the 5.56Nato/ .223Rem with the rite twist and pill it is a great little hunter that can preform out of its league but all rounds have their limits. I guess that's why there are so many different rounds out there. Iv also noted in a report that I read the preferred weapons of all of what has been tried and tested over there in the Ghan and Iraq at this time are all WW2 era weapons and that would make sense as it is desert warfare again and all of the older systems have been tried and proven and any bugs were worked out and sorted a long time ago, Aain't it strange how what was once old is new again and its hard to improve on perfection but there is always some NEW Kid on the block that thinks that he can? In closing its only fair to say the senior Russian officials would also prefer to return to the tried and proven 7.62X39mm AK-47 round over the smaller dia: AK-74 and I guess its for the same reason that the 5.56Nato is disliked at this time Militarily speaking. gun) [/QUOTE]
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